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掲示板Forums -
This topic is tied to the below grammar expression in the grammar library.
も
1. As many/much as A
私のおじいさんは、犬を４匹も飼っている。
My grandfather has four dogs.
2. Also A; A as well
きっと彼も同じように思ったでしょう。
Surely hetoo felt the same way.
3. Nothing/no one/nobody (A)
A is the question term such as nothing, no one, nowhere, etc (だれ+も = no one, なに+も = nothing). This is followed by a negative statement B that links to A
何事もなく、無事に戻りました。
I (they) returned safely withoutincident.
4. Even [T], not even A
The negative form (not even) can be identified when the verb following the も is in the negative form.
高田君は歌だけでなく絵も上手で、皆驚きました。
Everyone was surprised because Takada is good at not just singing but drawingaswell.
5. Neither A nor B
A and B are generally opposites (hot/cold, easy/hard, etc.)
Hmmm, can't 「も」 also simply mean [even]? I think that's where some of the other expressions that incorporate 「も」 (and for which grammar pages already exist) come from, for example:
そこまでしなくて[color=blue]も[/color]いい。
[i][color=blue]Even[/color] if you don't do it until there, it's OK.[/i]
[b]You don't have to go that far.[/b]
これを使って[color=blue]も[/color]いい？
[i][color=blue]Even[/color] if I use this, is it ok?[/i]
[b]May I use this?[/b]
But then, of course, it can be used by itself, following nouns and such:
彼女はお茶の一杯[color=blue]も[/color]出そうとしなかった。
[b]She didn't [/b][color=blue][b]even[/b][/color] [b]offer me a cup of tea.[/b]
I think that this [even] meaning of 「も」 is the key to understanding the particle's use in sentences like this one:
いままで見たこと[color=blue]も[/color]ないようなとっても大きな大きな蕪です。
[b]It is a gigantic turnip the likes of which he had never [color=blue]even[/color] seen before.[/b]
Now, in English you can leave the word [even] out of the above sentence, because all it is doing is adding emphasis. Similarly, I think that you could have said 「見たこと[color=blue]が[/color]ない」 in the Japanese version, and the overall meaning wouldn't have really changed. 「も」 is just acting as an emphasis particle in this case, just as [even] is.
What do you think?
This covers the first two examples:
http://www.renshuu.org/index.php?page=grammar/individual&id=107
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12 years ago
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Right, I was looking at that page earlier. Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough - those first two examples already have grammar pages. I was just using them to demonstrate the general [even] meaning of 「も」. The issue I'm wondering about is when [も」 directly follows a noun (or something other than an inflected verb - see the example below). Do you think it deserves a usage on this page? It's pretty common, from what I've been seeing.
Here's another example I saw just today on Lang-8, both versions written by a native speaker:
彼はマンガが好きなのか[color=blue]も[/color]分かっていない！
He still doesn’t [color=blue]even[/color] know whether he likes manga or not.
I think it's important that we supply this general meaning for 「も」 here, so that if a user reads a sentence like this, then comes to this page to check out what 「も」 could mean in this situation, they won't be confused into trying to reckon one of the extant meanings to somehow fit. I only say this because I did just that, which prompted me to look further into it and post about it.
Ok, I definitely feel like it could belong on the page.
Definition: (not) even [A]
Usage structure: [N] も, [Noun clause] も, [Verb stem] も しない
What do you think?
Edit: note that the 'not' version is brought out when followed by a negative verb/statement.
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12 years ago
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Looks great to me! I appreciate you looking into it and pondering over it.
Bit different in terms of usage, actually. ても/でも is used with verbs, generally in the sense of "even if":
雨が降っても行きます。
I'll go even if it rains.
でも also appears after nouns and な-adjectives with the same usage, as a form of だ.
学生でもできる仕事
work even a student can do
And でも can also be used when making suggestions or invitations to show that you'd be open to other alternatives:
お茶でも飲む？
Want some tea (or something else to drink?)
The first usage of も here is used to show extent, and it implies you think doing something to that degree is surprising.
6時間も勉強したの？
You studied for six (whole) hours?!
も isn't used in either the gentle suggestion or the "even if" sense.
When using も, can't you also create the meaning of anything, anywhere, and anyone?
Such as 何もいいよ: Anything is good. Isn't this why the company DoCoMo chose their name, meaning anywhere?
It usually includes the で particle (the most common usages), so it is listed on a separate page here: http://www.renshuu.org/index.php?page=grammar/individual&id=122
I'm also studying on Duolingo, where they have an example sentence:はやくもおそくもないです。They translate it as 'it is neither fast nor slow', so I came looking here for this usage of も as neither, but I don't see it. Am I looking in the wrong place?
My copy of Bunkei Jiten also specifies its use with nouns and verbs, as well skipping で for な-adjectives. For example: 左も右もない - neither left nor right. 笑いも泣きもしない - neither laugh nor cry. 利口も愚かもない - neither clever nor foolish.
