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Forums - Simplifications needed for an easier user experience

Top > renshuu.org > Feature Requests/Improvements



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Nicolas2
Level: 31
I strongly feel that before Renshuu is available on the Google store, it should be made simpler to use. Otherwise you could have thousands of people setting up an account, getting confused, and leaving before they find out how great Renshuu is.
Meaning there would need to be additional complexities under the hood. It's probably impossible to see, if you've worked on Renshuu for years and have it all in your mind, but it is rather confusing at first, and there are still things that are kind of bothering to me now due to the fact that at the beginning I didn't understand at all how the site works, and I didn't setup things as needed. I invited a (French Vs Greek) language partner to use Renshuu, as I think it's the very best there is to study Japanese. She tried, but was too confused to start studying at all. She'll try again. I'll start with what still bothers me, then will try a checklist of things that could help (some of which might already exist on the site). Other users might also have additional suggestions?

The reason why you probably have very little feedback, if any at all, is the same reason why no school child tells the teacher that he didn't understand, despite being completely confused by the lesson: he doesn't want to appear dumb. I don't have this anxiety, so I don't mind admitting I'm confused, when it's the case. So here are some ideas to make the site less confusing in some of the most fundamental aspects.

The first thing is, it's not necessary obvious to someone who first comes to the site what is a schedule, why you need to create a schedule at all, and not, say, simply choose the level you want to study, and just start getting quizzed on JLPT N3 every day after that. I'll get back to that.
What still bothers me is related to the studypad. At first I used the studypad to add words from example sentences that I wanted to study, and words that I found elsewhere. But I never understood how to quiz the studypad separately, so when I had just over 100 words in it, I instead created a schedule called "studypad", and I put those 100+ words into it. It works fine. But it's a schedule, not a lesson, so I can't see the list of words in the study center. If it's actually possible to study the studypad separately, how? (a bit too late for me, I'm getting close to 1000 words in the "studypad" schedule, but it could be useful to others to clarify). If a schedule is not made of lessons (like my "studypad" schedule), would it be possible to create a lesson containing its vocabulary, in order to see this vocabulary in the study center? (maybe in blocks of 100 words, if having one gigantic lessons causes some problem). So far, it works only in the other direction, you can create schedules from lessons.
While on the idea of operations on schedules and lessons, It would be neat if I had a way to remove the N3 / N2 vocabulary that is in my "studypad" schedule list. If I could see this word list, and order them by JLPT level (from N5 to "beyond JLPT"), then I would just have to remove what comes at the top, that would work.

Anyway, more fundamental things, now. I don't remember exactly how it is when starting, and you probably changed many things, so here are a few questions, a kind of check-list :
-When the user uses the startup help, does it ask the user his current level?
­-If the user has no previous knowledge, does the site setup a schedule "basic vocabulary" containing the JLPT-N5 vocabulary? And a kanji schedule with the JLPT-N5 kanjis, if the user indicated he wants to study kanji.
-Do you have something planned for users who have zero prior knowledge to study hiragana and katakana?
-If the user does have some knowledge of Japanese, does the site setup a schedule containing the appropriate vocabulary, and then offer to also setup a second schedule containing basic vocabulary but with mastery levels pre-setup at the estimated level of the user? Say, if a users indicates going to an intermediate level, studying for JLPT-N3, setup the schedule "JLPT-N3" containing just that, but also another schedule containing N4 and N5 at the estimated mastery levels : "well known" for N5 and "a bit" for N4, or both "well known", or "very well" and "well"… depending on the answers of the user.
-If a user has no vocab or kanji schedule setup, does his dashboard have one big button (or 2) shouting "Create my first [vocab/kanji] study schedule!"?

Hmmm… unless I forgot something, I guess that covers it, that was shorter than expected. (but probably implying an awful lot of work, I guess, unless I missed something and all that is actually already implemented).
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5 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 262
If I knew how to fix the complexity issue, then it'd be worth waiting, but this is an issue that I've grappled with (just something I'm not good with) for years. The site is naturally very obvious to me, but I know that is, as you said, because I put it together. I don't think I'm going to reach a state where I can say "yes, it's simple enough - put it on the play store". It'll be in a constant state of revision and improvement.

You can actually see exactly what a new users sees by going to Help > Getting Started. So, to answer your questions:
1)It does ask their current level by asking what they are studying (textbook, level, etc.)
2)If they are "just studying in general", and they say they are a beginner, then yes, it sticks them with basic, n5 vocab/kanji/grammar
3)Nothing planned yet for zero beginners. 
4)The site does not set up secondary schedules, not yet at least. It would not be too difficult to do.
5)If the user chooses to escape the getting started flow, it kicks them to the study center.

6)You can study the studypad, Study Center > Me > Studypad (there is a study button on it). Currently, over 90% of all studying is done through schedules. I'm pretty sure that people who are leaving the site before then are not doing so because of the difficulty of the studypad, but because of something else that distracts them from the site. I have simplified the onramping of the site somewhat to keep the dashboard simple, not mention the daily challenges and kao-chan manga until at least one quiz has been done, but it still doesn't appear to be enough to create a marked difference in the retention at the beginning of the site.

The site does briefly explain what a schedule does (at the end of the getting started prompt) - my intent was to keep it short enough so that they are not bogged down with a lot of reading before beginning to study for the first time. However, it seems like enough users are not even reaching that point, so it is probably something else.

I'd be more than willing to put in whatever time it takes to resolve this issue, but my strengths lie in back-end stuff, and making the UI more inviting has never been easy for me.

Edit: My data was wrong. The vast majority (90% and up) make it through the getting started prompt.
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5 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 262
I did want to say that, in addition to the play store, my next big feature is a better introduction module for new terms instead of just saying "hey, here's 10 new terms, study them now". This is the first experience in the quizzes, and has been lacking for some time now. The current system will of course remain available for those who like it, but all these vocab images and mnemonics are going to be a key element of this new introduction system.
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5 years ago
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Nicolas2
Level: 31
"The site does briefly explain what a schedule does (at the end of the getting started prompt)"
Your whole site illustrates the idea that pedagogy is the art of repetition. During the getting started thing, the user is only receptive to one thing: when do I start learning? (and it better be within 1 minute, cause I'm a millenial or post millenial, and patience died in 1993). Trying to explain the how, at this point, may be entirely futile. Popups about the word schedule (when clicking on the question mark following the word "schedule") wherever it appears could be a solution?
I hope the improvement you're working on will help!

"You can actually see exactly what a new users sees by going to Help > Getting Started."
I was too worried it would mess up something :)

Ah, another thing about retention: by default you could set reasonable targets for the schedules, like 5 per day, 50 total per week, and when user sets higher target, warn in big letters that it will make the schedules unmanageable, that going steadily at a reasonable pace will get him further, and that if one actually knows some of the "new" words he can indicate it as they come, in which case those words are not counted... And asking to confirm at least twice if the user persists with dangerously high targets.
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5 years ago
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Nicolas2
Level: 31
"6)You can study the studypad, Study Center > Me > Studypad (there is a study button on it). Currently, over 90% of all studying is done through schedules. I'm pretty sure that people who are leaving the site before then are not doing so because of the difficulty of the studypad"
Oh, yes, it's there! Not sure you can add it to a schedule though? Unfortunately on the phone I didn't get what the bookmark icon was until too late. For sure, it's not a major issue, it's just one I happened to have, illustrating the fact that users can be confused by different things. It even took me days to figure out where the dictionary is (I didn't expect there would be one, so I didn't pay attention to the book icon...)
A possibility: keep a little bubble at the top of the main page, or a question mark in the top bar (next to the dictionary): "Remind me where is everything and how it works", to pop-up one page that would remind the essentials and point to the help for advanced info.
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5 years ago
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Nicolas2
Level: 31
I just noticed: the help page about schedules... Does not say what a schedule is ;o)
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5 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 262
Thanks for all the comments! Right now, I'm putting all my time into building the thing we briefly discussed via PM, so everything else is on the table until progress with that is made.
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5 years ago
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