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Forums - Terms that should contain kanji have reverted to all hiragana

Top > renshuu.org > Bugs / Problems > Resolved Bugs



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akikaze
Level: 100
Within the last several days I've noticed that a lot of terms with kanji on my study lists have suddenly reverted to all hiragana. This seems to have happened because they're alternate kanji for a word that's been changed to all hiragana, usually with the "rarely written as" kanji notation, even though I've specifically added the alternate kanji version to a study list. One example is にる. It now shows up as による.

This causes problems with the Kanji Kentei word lists. Many words on those lists now don't contain any kanji at all, which kind of defeats the purpose. It also makes it harder to learn alternate kanji versions of words. Despite the notation that they're rarely written with kanji, they are often, in fact, written with kanji in newspapers and books. もなく is an example of that. It's reverted to all hiragana, but I always see it used with kanji in newspapers. I specifically wanted to study もなく, not まもなく, yet adding もなく gets me まもなく.
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5 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 261
There was an update done against the edict dictionary file, and a lot of terms that were not yet bound to that (but had been in the site for a long time) were finally bound (manually).

What about the setting under Kanji that says "Show kanji for terms commonly shown in hiragana" ?
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5 years ago
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akikaze
Level: 100
Using the setting to always show kanji is not an optimal solution to this issue. You'd then, for example, end up with for どこ, which isn't helpful to anyone.

The main issue here is: if I specifically choose a version of a word with kanji in it, I expect to have that version show up in my schedules, not the "root" version of the word in the dictionary. I added もなく, not まもなく. And as I previously mentioned, this change causes problems with the site's Kanji Kentei vocabulary schedules.

I do appreciate all the work you put into this site, so don't get me wrong, but this change has made the site a bit less useful and a bit more frustrating to me, and I assume to other intermediate and advanced users as well. If you're studying to improve your reading skills for such things as newspapers and novels, you often need to learn the alternate kanji versions of words.
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5 years ago
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htatsuha
Level: 1147
It would be nice if there was a way to study words "rarely" (fairly commonly) written in kanji without also having to study actually rare/archaic kanji usage as well. I have actually seen in writing before, but , the kanji for きっと and じっと, etc, I do not find useful (I would type these words in kanji, but these words are so rarely written in kanji, my IME can't convert them). Some words have separate entries for all kana, all kanji, and/or mixed kana/kanji, so you can choose the version you want to study, but many words have just the one entry, where the kanji are marked as rare, so if you want to study the version with kanji for some of those words, you have to study the kanji version of a bunch of other words that are almost never written that way anymore, because the setting for displaying kanji instead of kana is all or nothing.
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5 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 261
@akikaze thanks for the update. I know you've been around long enough to know that I rarely stop until the users are satisfied with what's available, so while I understand your criticism, there's no need to presume that this was a)intended and b)unable to be changed. We'll get there! However, I need to point out that unless there are completely different entries in the dictionary (which is pretty rare), there is no "root" and "non root" versions of a term, there's just the one. When you search for a term, it searches both the hiragana and kanji forms. In the case that there are different dictionary entries, nothing in the last update changed users over from one version to the other.

As far as the dictionary goes (and the underlying dictionary file), there is not any different levels of "rarity" in regards to when kanji shows up. Although it might take a bit of time, I think the best solution would be to unmark the ones that have been marked as rare, but are not. I'm happy to update them as we find them! I think that we will be able to return the majority of them to the previous version.

I'm going on a business trip for the next 3 days, so it might be hard to respond quickly. I just unmarked the terms mentioned in this thread (as well as げる, which i know was mentioned somewhere else). Let me know what else you find!
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5 years ago
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akikaze
Level: 100
Oh, of course! I know you're always responsive to issues, and I'd never think you'd do anything intentional to upset users. That's why I've stuck around for so long and why I don't hesitate to open issues if I find them.

I was the one who brought up the げる/げる issue, using the "report mistake" function. And thanks for removing the "rarely written as kanji" from those. They, along with げる, now show up with their proper kanji in schedules. That issue in itself highlights the problem with "rarely written" words. While it's true that you see あげる, you just as often see げる, especially in compound verbs. And げる and げる, though they basically mean the same thing, can be used differently. It's important to be able to study all versions.

I know you're not the actual person deciding if something is rare or not. It's common across all the different Japanese dictionaries, but I personally take "rarely written as kanji" notations with a grain of salt. An example is . It's always listed as rarely written in kanji, but in news articles and official statements it's part of the standard notation for time when the time is approximate: 420. You see both ごろ/ころ and , depending on what you're reading. Beginners might best start out studying the hiragana versions, but they'll run into the kanji version soon enough and may want to study it. As htatsuha suggested, a way to individually mark words to display with kanji or kana might be a solution to problems like this instead of an all or nothing setting. (As someone who's done software development, I know that, depending on how the program is set up, such a change might be simple to do, or it might require a complete rewrite of everything, so I understand any hesitation you might have on that.)

As I go through my schedules, I'll collect words that I think you could unmark and post them. Thanks!
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5 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 261
Great! Additionally, I plan on adding some high level tools for heavy users to really get more direct access to their data and ways to easily manipulate stuff. I've been focusing more on beginner stuff as of late, but I've got plans for all level users. It's just a matter of finding the time to get to it!

Thanks for understanding, and I look forward to any other problems or suggestions you have.
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5 years ago
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akikaze
Level: 100
Adding a couple of words that I've found:




I see both used with either kanji or hiragana.
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5 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 261
Sorry for the delay. Fixed!
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5 years ago
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akikaze
Level: 100
Thanks! It also looks like you went through the Kanji Kentei lists and fixed those that had been made hiragana. I have a kanji-only study list made up of Kanji Kentei terms, and I just noticed yesterday that there were a number of words marked as can't study because they no longer had any kanji. I was going to post them today, but they suddenly all showed back up in my quiz.
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5 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 261
I found out a way to compare them to older data still in the database, so I was able to make a mass update and fix a bunch of them at once!
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5 years ago
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Getting the posts




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