掲示板 Forums - koto vs goto
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Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese
hi everyone! after ikaru is it goto? or koto? or can we use either?
There are several sentences in renshuu’s database that include the phrase 怒る事, but nearly all of them have the pronunciation おこること. A few have いかること, but only this one has いかるごと. There is also a second version of this same sentence with audio pronounced おこること.
That suggests いかるごと is an error, at least in this sentence. I would avoid it until more evidence appears.
My best guess is that it's a nominalizing suffix.
There are only a handful of example sentences for 事/ごと that come with audio, but they are all read こと, so I am skeptical. I’ll probably have to ask someone.
Okay, I spoke with my sensei. According to her, 事/ごと cannot be used after a verb in dictionary form like 怒る. You use it after the 連用形 (continuative form). Examples include ならいごと, あそびごと, and かくしごと.
Okay, I spoke with my sensei. According to her, 事/ごと cannot be used after a verb in dictionary form like 怒る. You use it after the 連用形 (continuative form). Examples include ならいごと, あそびごと, and かくしごと.
In English, it's also counted as a noun. In some Japanese discussion circles, people also acknowledge it's also a noun, despite most dictionaries using it as a verb. I don't know if that is worth the consideration.
Also, I have seen ごと use with that word, such as here: https://www.naturalclean.co.jp...
And here: https://yomogido.com/archives/...
In this blog entry, there's a historical document from a high school song which uses ごと: https://prangecollection.wordp...
You'd get the drift.
Also, I don't know if this is also worth noting given these examples, but I do know that there's sometines favor for hiragana use, rather than the kanji for both readings of こと and ごと. Perhaps that's what makes these sentences all the more clear to read.
All in all, I do find this fascinating, and would love to be educated more about the basis behind this. From what I'm seeing so far, I don't really see these examples where ごと isn't used. It would hint to me that if you'd say it can't be used for verbs, it's probably not one. I couldn't mark that as wrong unless it is actually misused here.
*Bonus: There's a Ralph Waldo Emerson quote,, "For every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind." Translations in Japanese tend to use ごと in hiragana. I'm sure there is a reason for this.
Okay, I spoke with my sensei. According to her, 事/ごと cannot be used after a verb in dictionary form like 怒る. You use it after the 連用形 (continuative form). Examples include ならいごと, あそびごと, and かくしごと.
In English, it's also counted as a noun. In some Japanese discussion circles, people also acknowledge it's also a noun, despite most dictionaries using it as a verb. I don't know if that is worth the consideration.
Also, I have seen ごと use with that word, such as here: https://www.naturalclean.co.jp...
And here: https://yomogido.com/archives/...
In this blog entry, there's a historical document from a high school song which uses ごと: https://prangecollection.wordp...
You'd get the drift.
Also, I don't know if this is also worth noting given these examples, but I do know that there's sometines favor for hiragana use, rather than the kanji for both readings of こと and ごと. Perhaps that's what makes these sentences all the more clear to read.
All in all, I do find this fascinating, and would love to be educated more about the basis behind this. From what I'm seeing so far, I don't really see these examples where ごと isn't used. It would hint to me that if you'd say it can't be used for verbs, it's probably not one. I couldn't mark that as wrong unless it is actually misused here.
*Bonus: There's a Ralph Waldo Emerson quote,, "For every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind." Translations in Japanese tend to use ごと in hiragana. I'm sure there is a reason for this.
Those examples appear to be using 毎/ごと (each,every) not 事/ごと (nominalizing suffix)
i.e. using this grammar ごとに
怒るごとに = 怒る毎に = "every time I get angry"
The sentence in the original post, on the other hand, appears to be using this grammar ことがある = 事がある
Those examples appear to be using 毎/ごと (each,every) not 事/ごと (nominalizing suffix)
怒るごとに = 怒る毎に = "every time I get angry" which is not the same as 怒る事
Perhaps. Maybe you're right. I really can't say. I just know that in the case for 事, its written in hiragana and I'm seeing either こと and ごと written after words like 怒る, so I would think that's 事. Google Translate doesn't discern any difference to either kanji and doesn't change the translation with respect to that. I'd suspect that would have to do with the way it autocorrected to こと for both words.
IDK anymore.
Also while on this subject, why would this mention verbs used with 事 in that case? This is from the built-in Japanese dictionary from Kindle under こと (事) when in this case the reading is ごと?
This is really throwing me off considering what your sensei said.
All the ごと that should be こと as getting fixed now. Looks like nothing more than incorrect dictionary linking.
Also while on this subject, why would this mention verbs used with 事 in that case? This is from the built-in Japanese dictionary from Kindle under こと (事) when in this case the reading is ごと?
This is really throwing me off considering what your sensei said.
That dictionary entry says that the ごと is attached to the stem form of the verb. Which aligns with what ポールおじちゃん said.
e.g. To use 事/ごと one would write 習い事/ならいごと not 習うごと
One can still nominalize 習う using 事/こと i.e. 習う事/ならうこと
That dictionary entry says that the ごと is attached to the stem form of the verb. Which aligns with what ポールおじちゃん said.
e.g. To use 事/ごと one would write 習い事/ならいごと not 習うごと
One can still nominalize 習う using 事/こと i.e. 習う事/ならうこと
I get what you mean now. I can see the mistake.
It makes sense if you think of rendaku like a hyphen, that is, a device that connects two words to make a new word. So you have narai-goto (one word) or narau koto (two words).
I get it already now. It was just how I was focused on one hand that the root word for 怒る was a noun, that I didn't realize that it was more about how it was an intransitive verb form. I just treated it completely differently than what it was and my wires get crossed.