today I have learned the existence of forms like 食べて欲しい (tabete hoshii), meaning wanting that someone eats something. Now I'm looking for an example sentence, but I'm struggling with the particle... I found a reddit post where someone gave these sentences:
私はアイスを食べてほしいです。 私はアイスが食べたいです。
I know that 食べたい means wanting to eat, but can someone explain why different particles are used here?
I was just reading about this on Imabi. Apparently, it’s a hangover from Classical Japanese, when it was mandatory to use が for the object of a transitive verb.
Thank you for sharing this interesting article! I didn't understand everything, but I think it's cool to have a very profound explanation available that I can come back to when I have studied more. Btw, have you heard of the zeroが particle theory? If so, what do you think about it? For me it makes everything just more confusing :D But that's okay.
I don't know who came up with it, I encountered it in this Jouzu Juls Video and a YouTuber called Cure Dolly also talked about it. He states that every Japanese sentence has a が in it, although it is sometimes hidden. The reason is that you can't have a sentence without a subject and が is the only subject marker. And in sentences without が he inserts a (⌀が), meaning basically "it", to explain what the subject is in those cases. But that doesn't make sense to me. Like 私は (⌀が) 日本人です。 = As for me, it is Japanese.
I found this Video from Japanese Ammo with Misa way more helpful, because instead of looking for one explanation that covers everything, she gives us several situations where we use は or が.
I couldn’t find anything but YouTube videos and Reddit threads either. That’s why I asked. It does sound familiar.
The idea that が is the one and only subject marker seems to be at odds with the historical record, though. Plus, a mechanism that only works for contemporary Japanese isn’t going to fly theoretically. Other languages have null subjects too.
Have you studied Japanese studies? I noticed you know a lot about etymologies of Kanji while learning them recently and now you refer to historical record, so I'm just curious ^_^
Well を is actually the marker for direct objects, but in たい sentences you usually use が to mark the thing you want to do something with. Like in アイスが食べたい - Ice cream is the thing you want to eat. As for アイスを食べて欲しい, I guess it's just the way it is. However, note that this is just a reddit post from someone I don't know. Could be wrong.
確かにそうですね~ But I'm sure we learn that over time. There are some good videos on YouTube, especially about は and が, and the rest comes with immersion, I guess
I think this falls under the category of something my brother remarked to that he had read somewhere. Probably mis-remembering it:
All models are wrong, but some are useful.
We're non-native speakers trying to make sense out of a highly contextual language with a ton of elements that simply do not exist in our languages. I do not believe that this "hidden が" exists, but I do think it can be a useful tool in order to help understand some sentences.
Almost every time I teach in discord about some of the fundamentals, I make sure and say "this way of approaching (a particular topic) will get you most of the way there, but there are few rules that are accurate across all sentences and usages, and so it's more of a "best fit" instead of a "correct fit".
I didn't know that saying, but it makes sense, yeah... Also, maybe we learners shouldn't spend to much time understanding a particular topic if it doesn't make click. I'm a native German speaker and when I learned "him" and "her" at school, I often confused it with something (I guess "he" and "she", but I'm not sure anymore, it's too long ago). But when we moved on, at some point I had no struggle with that, although I didn't study that topic again. I mean, "him" and "her" are so much easier than things like は, が andを or other Japanese grammar, but I think the principle is the same. So: Let's don't get too frustrated! Haha
Thanks for sharing! Well, I found one of the comments pretty helpful, the one from QS, who says he is Japanese. I'll link part two here, so it's easier to find. What Tae Kim explains there, is basically the same as the comment. However, it annoys me, that often different sources says different things about certain topics. I feel like there is a "を is default for たい"-fraction, a "が is default but を is okay"-fraction and an outlawed "を is incorrect"-fraction... Well, maybe it doesn't matter that much, if you use を or が in that case.
Generally, it's followed by the particle を, but depending on the sentence and your use of 食べる in the sentence, that particle could change to が or even は. Here's a few examples I could think of:
Simple declarative sentence:
僕は毎日肉をたべます。
Answering a question (presenting previously unknown information):
Ohh, this makes so much sense! Especially this part clicks for me:
私は野菜はあまり食べません。
From multiple sources I learned that you can use は for contrast, but they always used positive sentences.
Like 私は野菜は食べます = I eat vegetables, but not the other thing(s) we talked about.
I understand that, but I always thought this is a pretty rare context. But with negative sentences it makes more sense and is surely used more often. In this case I guess it's like: I don't really eat vegetables, but I eat other food.
I didn't understand everything, but I think it's cool to have a very profound explanation available that I can come back to when I have studied more. Btw, have you heard of the zeroが particle theory? If so, what do you think about it? For me it makes everything just more confusing :D But that's okay.
