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Forums - Grammar まで/までに

Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese



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Level: 52

Hi guys, I know it's pretty basic, but all the time I get these two mistaken.

Is there a simple way to know when to use one or the other?
I did that grammar part 4 or 5 time and still mix them up

0
2 days ago
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まで means "until" or "up to" and are used to describe ongoing actions up until a certain time. までに means "by" and are used for actions that are completed before a certain time. The difference is that まで describes continuous actions while までに does not. I think of it like までに describes a deadline while まで describes a continuous action up until that time.

5
2 days ago
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Here's some examples:


まで宿をします - I'll keep doing homework until 1. ✅

までに宿をします - I'll finish my homework by 1. ✅


までにます - I'll arrive by 2. ✅

までます - (る isn't a continuous action) ❌


まるまでにます - I'll come before the store closes. ✅

まるまでます - (る isn't a continuous action) ❌


Note that the sentences marked with ❌ aren't necessarily "wrong", but sound "unnatural" and should be avoided.

3
2 days ago
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Shamugan
Level: 556

It's not, you're far from being the only one that got confused because of that.

Conceptually, まで just mark a "limit" (physical limit, temporal limit, etc) or the extent of something.

までやりましょう -> Let's do it until 6
まできましょう -> Let's go until the station together

That's for the most common examples. But まで can be used for case a little bit different too.

からまで、があります。-> From my home to the station, there are tree standing on both side of the road.

And in that case, it's not an "ongoing action".
It can also be used for more abstract things.

になるまでします -> I will study until I'm good

Now for までに, the deadline idea is really a good example and useful way to remember it (except for the part that it's limited to temporal case only). に kinda give the idea of "target". It's still a limit but also a place/time/state by which something happen before you reach that place/time/state.

Okay, my brain is fried now trying to find a good explanation. I will just give you a few example

までにってください。-> Please come home by 6
くまでにんだ。 -> The rain stopped before I got to school
りがするまでにおう。 -> Let’s talk it out before I explode with anger.

Hope those will help. And sorry to give up mid way x)
But if it doesn't, don't worry too much. I got so annoyed with the まで/までに pair that I just stop studying it for a long time. But after immersing for some time (and also getting a better grasp of まで and に separetly), it became more obvious to me. So don't worry too much if you're still struggling, that's perfectly normal. And it can be better to just give up temporarily and let it mature through immersion.

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2 days ago
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