掲示板 Forums - Kanji Kentei – Alternative word lists

Description

Alternative lists of words to learn the reading and meanings of kanji following the Kanji Kentei lists of kanji made by renshuu. The initial reason why I decided to work on that list is because I found the official list hard to learn. For example, some words used kanji that were way beyond my level. Or the words themselves were difficult to learn. So I started to work on that list with two main criteria:

• Try to only used words with kanji already studied previously (if possible)
• Try to select that are easier to learn in some kind of way
  

For example, 雨水 (あまみず, rain water). Both kanji are from the kanji kentei 十級 and it’s easy to understand the words from the kanji (rain + water = water). The word is also not that complicated. That was the ideal case. But later, it was not always possible. For example, there was not always a word with only kanji that I already studied before. Like the しゃく reading of 石. The only word that I could found was 磁石. And I choose it because it was more or less common. But later I changed it for 石神 because 神 is studied in the kanji kentei 八級 while 磁 is studied in the kanji kentei 五級. Because the idea was not really to study common words but rather words that can useful to remember the kanji in one way or another. That’s why I rather choose a word with a kanji that I will study soon rather a word with kanji that I will study 2 years later. When I could, I also tried to choose words with kanji that I have studied a long time ago. For example, when was working on the はん reading of 飯 (kanji kentei 七級), I choose 赤飯. Because 赤 is a kanji kentei 十級 kanji and by that point, I had already study that kanji “too much”. The only difficult part left was to learn the はん reading. Then once I remember 赤飯, it was easier to remember the kanji making it easier to remember more words which in turns make it easier to remember the kanji, etc.
I could not always find the perfect word that matched all my criteria but at least, most words contains only kanji previously learned (which really helped a lot).

Besides that, I also separated the list by reading level (only primary school kanji at first). I added a bunch of optional list containing extra words to study (2 kanji compound words, 3 kanji compound words, etc) separated by reading too. I also had a bunch of other ideas but never had the time to works on them.

Help needed

Mainly feedback and checking for mistakes. Eventually, suggesting words too but I think I will only do that if some people are really motivated. For the feedback and the mistakes, well, sometimes, I spend several hours to find the best word and kinda just started to get impatient or just tired. So there are probably some words that are in the wrong list or maybe, there is a more suited/easier words to study first. Also since マイコー updated the kanji database, there is some missing words for some list (like when a primary school reading got added). I will work on them at some point but I could use some help to be honest.
Other than that, I had a bunch of other idea like creating a sentence list to get used too transitive/intransitive pair but never find the time to work on them…
I also wanted to create a list for compounds verbs or words with okurigana but never found the time to that too. The current lists are mainly helpful for basic compounds words, so mainly onyomi readings, but not really for kunyomi reading (besides the basic lists).


Anyway, to sum up, I could use some help because it’s been more than two years since I started to work on those set of lists. At first, I wanted to finish every list before studying them but after a few burn out, I choose to take a different approach. So now, I usually take breaks in between. Right now I’m studying the kanji kentei 五級 extra words list and I’m not really working on those list besides adding a few words. Once I’m done I will "graduate from primary school" since I will be mostly done with primary school kanji and readings (finally... ; ;) and I will be able to start working on middle school readings. That means I will have to check every kanji that I’ve learned so far for middle school reading… (I’m really not anticipating that part…). And after that, I will those lists and continue with the kanji kentei 四級, etc. If you want to help, you’re more than welcome x).

Also, I will add only the kanji kentei 十級 set for now. Because I have 10 set for each level with at least 5 lists inside and at most 47… Don’t really to spam the list tab with my lists. If you want to know more, you can check my profil though. Most lists are already public.

Yeah sorry about that x)
I didn't find a way to organize the step otherwise (if I name a step "Step 101", it will go between "Step 10" and "Step 11"). And since I didn't know how many step I would end up with too, I came up with that.

All the step from 1 to 20 are the basic step, which should contains at least one word per primary reading. In between those step, I want to add the middle school and high school reading ("Step X.1" for the middle school reading and "Step X.2" for the high school reading).
All the step that start with 9 are optional step (extra 2 kanji compound words, extra 3 kanji compounds words, etc).

And no, the set is not finished... I was done with the primary reading step until マイコー updated the kanji database. Now, I need to recheck every list just in case a primary reading got added or was removed. And also add the middle school ones. Maybe I will do the high school ones at the same time so I don't have to come back again. Also need to do some cleaning on my side since I changed the naming convention a few time x)

So, yeah, it's that kind of help that need. Probably very boring for most people (unless you're using those list and notice the mistakes as you're studying).

"Possible words that contain kanji from prior steps: 王女 おうにょ、　 女王 にょおう、 石女 しゃくにょ ← these are all alternative readings of words though."

Ideally, it would be better if it's not but at the same time, it's not that important. It can be even useful to force you to remember every combination of reading. I added a few alternate reading like that and... it was a nightmare sometimes but also an effective method x).
Thanks for the suggestion, I will add them =p

Step 2.1 contain 山下 (やまもと) though?

Yep, for every reading.
And also yes.

It doesn't matter if they are really useful or not because 70 to 90% of them became part of my passive vocabulary. I can read and understand most of those words but I can't really recall them. Except the useful ones because immersion make able to remember them =p (which become part of my active vocabulary)
It's like reading or stumbling upon words naturally (with a little help). I don't always check a word definition or try to remember actively in my own language. But at the same time, I'm still able to recall a lot of uncommon words just because of my personal linguistic environnement. Some common words are uncommon because I'm not living in japan. And some uncommon words are common too for the same reason. As well as a lot of other reasons like my personnal interests, etc. And because of that, some common words are harder to remember while some uncommon are "too easy" to remember (ironically)
So I kinda "give up" on common/useful words since I can't predict which one will be really useful for me. Especially in my case since I don't live in japan and is also exposed to some specific linguistic environnement (spoken japanese, youtube, some technical topic, etc).

For me, that kind of formal study (JLPT, kankei or even kaishi) is a gamble. It doesn't garantee that I will really use those words. I already forgot a few "common/useful" words because they are simply not common for me... Even after studying some words for more than 1 year (which is really annoying and felt like a waste of time). That's the main reason why I don't care anymore. I'm still studying them but I don't put as much effort as before. I also only have the kanji -> kana and kana -> kanji vector. For the meaning, I try to guess it before answering. And it kinda worked. And after, well, immersion will select which one I should really remember. Also have a few schedule to study those words again if necessary.

The second reason is... Japanese don't care that much about usefulness x). The whole idea behind the kyouiku kanji or the kanji kentei is not really to learn "useful" kanji or words but rather to master basic/simple one before moving on. And to build on that. So when they studying a new kanji, they don't necessarily learn useful word. If they can, they will. But otherwise, they don't care that much. At least, from what I can tell with a japanese app made for the kanji kentei test. They also don't study 3 kanji compound words until the fourth year of primary school. Which seems like a little tweak but it does help a lot. A 3 kanji compound is not that easy to remember or understand. Rather than, they only focus on 2 compounds words until they master basic combination. Everything is kinda oriented towards simpler step rather than usefulness. I can't explained everything but it quite different from the way we study kanji most of the time. To be honest, I presented it like they really don't care about "common" words but that's not true. But at least, not like we do.

And my case, I just push that reasoning a bit further. Well, not just a bit but anyway x).
In the end, it's really similar to how you're studying reading in name with your list. The name are not really important but it will help to develop your ability to read name in general. Same thing here but for any kind of words. It's also help with guessing the meaning. And it really worked. It even gave the confidence that I could try to study classical text and grammar like japanese do in high school xD (like they can guess the meaning of classical chinese text even if they can't read it)
But I should forgot that idea for now and focus on modern japanese first

Thank you so much!
I did not believe someone would really do that xD (except for some people giving me occasional feedback while using those list).

• Step 11: 正 Missing reading - bショウ -> しょう was already present with 一生
• Step 12: 赤 Missing readings - bあか.らめる, bセキ -> I struggled a lot with that one but ended up with 赤気. The other either had more common alternate reading or needed too much external knowledge (like 七赤, related to an old horoscope system).
• Step 13: 千 Missing reading - bち -> I ended up with 千草 for that one since 草 is also in the kanji kentei 十級. It's also perfect for that level since it's a quite straighforward image: thousand + herb -> great variety of flower herbs.
• Step 14: 大 Missing readings - bおお, bおお.いに (bおお is probably covered by bおお.きい?) -> Yep but at the same time, beginners are not used to that kind of thing. So I usually add one words for every reading anyway (even if for an intermediate learners, it doesn't matter that much).
• Step 18: 八 Missing readings - bや.つ, bよう (八日/ようか) -> Don't know why but I had 8日 instead of 八日. I removed it and added the correct version.
• Step 19: 木 Alternative word - for bモク you have 木工 (もっこう), maybe something with the "full" reading would be better? 木材 (もくざい) for example. Or you could just add one word with the full reading. -> Yeah, I remember that one. But I choose 木工 to force people to start noticing that kind of things and get used to 連濁. But I just realized that 工 is in the 9級 list (and 材 in the 7級 list) so I added 草木 (そうもく) instead. Because it's also a straightforward image: herb + tree -> vegetation.

Again thank you so much! It really helped a lot! It's quite hard to that by myself because the list system is not really optimized for that kind of things and I often ended up missing quite a few reading. And since I also spend quite some time to decide which words to add, I usually make even more mistakes after that.
Also, for my criteria, they may seems weird but basically, it's "select the word that will create the less trouble in the long term". For each word, in the same order, I'm thinking :

1. Are there only kanji of, at most, the same level?
2. Is the word easy to understand? Can I guess the meaning from the kanji only? Do that word need cultural knowledge to be understood correctly?
3. If the word is not easy, do the word contains a kanji studied a long time ago? (making easier to study since there only one difficult part in theory)
4. etc.

When I had multiple option, I tried to choose the one that fit most criteria. At higher level, it became easier since more kanji were already studied but it was still difficult from time to time. Anyway, thank you!

Thanks for the tips! I will do that for the next list since I already did that "manually" for that one xD
I also added checked and added every missing 中 readings as well as 高 readings since there were not that many.
And... I think know why I did not want to rework on those list until now... x)
Beside the fact that I had to recheck every kanji, those readings are also... annoying xD
For some of them, there is only 5 words in total sometimes. Some readings also exist because of one word :v (the other words have more common alternate readings). Or they are part of proverb and beside that proverb, they are not used anymore x).

So, I was forced to be less strict. Like for the スイ reading of 出. Best word I could found was 出納 since it was present in multiple compound word. But at the same time, 納 is the 5級 list... It should be fine since it's better/more useful to study all the primary reading up until the 5級 list but it's a bit annoying for those who don't want to use the list that way =/.

I noticed a few fun thing while working on those. Like the き reading of 生 seems to be used mainly for silk, cloth or plant related words. Always wondered why 生地 meant cloth. That doesn't really explain it but at least it's a bit more coherent x). It's seems to have the meaning of "intermediate ingredients" like not raw but not finished product either. Just had the image since 生地 can mean dough too. And the あめ reading of 天 seems to be present only in 天の叢雲の剣 (the other words are uncommon alternate readings). I guess, at least, there is only one word to learn for that x) (well, based on renshuu database at least)

Anyway, I will stop there for now xD

What the... xD
And no, it will help x)
Honnestly, it's the most boring part for me, so thank you :D

Looking at the available words, that reading seems to be very low priority. Mostly formal, official, or legal terms. More of a historical leftover, especially in 国内 (こくだい). I'm not sure you'd ever read it that way as opposed to こくない. If I had to pick one, I'd go with 海内.

Honestly, you can just flip a coin and move on XD

You're welcome and here are the readings for 八級 if you need them XD (8 is the next one you're working on right?)

• Line 18: 化 — cケ
• Line 19: 荷 — cカ
• Line 30: 客 — cカク
• Line 31: 宮 — cグウ
• Line 34: 究 — cきわ.める
• Line 38: 業 — cわざ
• Line 47: 軽 — cかろ.やか
• Line 50: 研 — cと.ぐ
• Line 55: 幸 — cさち
• Line 71: 次 — cシ
• Line 78: 守 — cも.り
• Line 81: 州 — cす
• Line 82: 拾 — cシュウ,cジュウ
• Line 85: 集 — cつど.う
• Line 91: 助 — cすけ
• Line 92: 勝 — cまさ.る
• Line 93: 商 — cあきな.う
• Line 100: 申 — cシン
• Line 102: 神 — cかん
• Line 107: 昔 — cシャク
• Line 110: 相 — cショウ
• Line 113: 速 — cすみ.やか
• Line 117: 対 — cツイ
• Line 119: 代 — cしろ
• Line 128: 丁 — cテイ
• Line 130: 調 — cととの.う,cととの.える
• Line 139: 度 — cたび, cタク
• Line 146: 童 — cわらべ
• Line 153: 発 — cホツ
• Line 154: 反 — cタン
• Line 159: 鼻 —cビ
• Line 163: 病 — cや.む
• Line 176: 命 — cミョウ
• Line 177: 面 — cおも,cおもて
• Line 179: 役 — cエキ
• Line 182: 有 — cウ
• Line 200: 和 — cなご.む,cなご.やか,cやわ.らぐ,cやわ.らげる

• Line 1: 悪 — hオ
• Line 28: 期 — hゴ
• Line 31: 宮 — hク
• Line 38: 業 — hゴウ
• Line 52: 庫 — hク
• Line 60: 坂 — hハン
• Line 62: 仕 — hジ
• Line 69: 事 — hズ
• Line 76: 主 — hス
• Line 102: 神 — hこう
• Line 107: 昔 — hセキ
• Line 109: 想 — hソ
• Line 125: 着 — hジャク
• Line 132: 定 — hさだ.か
• Line 139: 度 — hト
• Line 154: 反 — hホン
• Line 161: 氷 — hひ
• Line 163: 病 — hヘイ
• Line 177: 面 — hつら
• Line 183: 由 — hよし, hユイ
• Line 184: 遊 — hユ
• Line 192: 流 — hル
• Line 195: 緑 — hロク
• Line 196: 礼 — hライ
• Line 200: 和 — hオ

I didn't feel like formatting them better. It's probably unnecessary anyway.

Edit: I still ended up formatting them a bit...

What should I contribute here?
Also guys um its okay if you turn it down, but I am going on a vacation from like the March 1 to March 20 ish and I need someone to be the manager (js respond there In the corresponding forum if you want) and handle the quests and the group for that timebeing...

I quite didn't get what you said maybe because it's too detailed heh 😅😓😥 And what are optional lists with 9? As for the manager part, I just want someone to handle the quests. No need to answer anything unless anything comes because there is gyuu boi and me also and you if you want to explain.