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Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese



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まだでもせません。
まだでもせません。
まだでもせません。
Which one's correct?
( Even I can't speak Japanese yet. ) Or is the sentence a bit off?

0
6 days ago
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さたん
Level: 18

I I’m low level and have not much clue but I see that only the particle is the change so shouldn’t the difference be only in a sentence? Again, I’m not advance so I have no clue but maybe..?

1
6 days ago
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The sentence itself is a bit off. You'd be understood, but it's quite unnatural. Having まだ + でも at the start like that is the main issue.

Besides that, all 3 particles are possible, but が fits best. It's the natural choice when talking about your "ability" to do something. は is the usual "contrastive" nuance. "As for Japanese..." (as opposed to whatever else there might be). And を is the weakest option.


Note: Not to be confused with を + します, that would be very different.


Edit: To be clear, I don't think there's anything grammatically wrong with your sentence, it's just clunky. I'd probably say でもまだせません。

Edit: Oh, and one more thing—with が and を the meaning is pretty much the same, while は adds it's own contrastive nuance. Here's a quote from a native speaker: "『せない』sounds like it implies "I can't speak Japanese, but can speak another language".

4
6 days ago
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Zbradaraldjan
Level: 526

My teachers told me that with the potential form it's incorrect to use the particle を. Using は is like saying that you only can't speak japanese, but you could use this particle in "せませんが、せます". In your case I would use が

2
5 days ago
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Zbradaraldjan (0114, 6:00)

My teachers told me that with the potential form it's incorrect to use the particle を. Using は is like saying that you only can't speak japanese, but you could use this particle in "せませんが、せます". In your case I would use が

The reason why I called を the "weakest option" instead of "incorrect", is because in practice a lot of Japanese people don't seem to have a problem with it. I understand why a teacher would classify it as "incorrect" though. That's reasonable.

For example here's three natives not flagging を + potential form [Source]. My guess is it has to do with Textbook usage vs Spoken language. It's technically "non-standard", but since it's common enough in real Japanese, many natives don't perceive it as wrong anymore.

Saying "Textbook usage vs Spoken language" might be an oversimplification on my part. There are probably other reasons for why を is sometimes acceptable.

You can also find a voiced sentence that does this on Renshuu itself, e.g. わずにせない。


Just thought it was an interesting phenomenon, I also think が is the most "natural" choice :)


PS: 話す話せる = potential (can speak). Just in case anyone is looking at autogenerated conjugation tables, this line is wrong - Potential せられる せられない, that's a "double" potential, it's not a thing...

Source: ja.hinative.com/questions/19068812


Edit: It's actually 4 natives in that example, not 3. I miscounted :D
Oh, and せれる is also wrong - [Source]

2
5 days ago
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Icepick87
Level: 575

I would've agreed to the sentence saying, 「でもまだXせません。」But it's obviously not about what's a grammatically correct arrangement, since this is not a major deal and that properly attached particles are the ones doing the heavy lifting to dictate how you want to say things. The trouble is the は/が/を choice.

It doesn't seem meaningful to use は in this instance, unless you're implying something that you're contrasting with the statement. It is likely more distinctive to use が. を is a bold choice to state something so matter-of-factly, but I don't see the point of using that tone in that statement. You could, if there was a point to it.

1
5 days ago
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However, I found something interesting :
~It is not used with particles such as が, を, and は, but it can be seen after other particles such as に, と, から, and まで. However, in slightly older Japanese, you can see combinations such as ~をでも. It is not advisable to use this as it is, again, not used anymore.     
The Particle でも -IMABI

0
5 days ago
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