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Forums - Transitive vs intransitive vs passive

Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese



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elbatrofmoc
Level: 412

Can someone please explain to me the difference in meaning between these three sentences:

1. メガネをつけません

2. メガネがつかりません

3. メガネがつけられない

I understand that these are transitive, intransitive and passive forms, but I'm still not sure which one to use if I wanted to say "I can't find my glasses"?

Thanks!

0
6 days ago
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メガネがつかりません (2) — literally (roughly) "The glasses aren't being found", but naturally understood as "I can't find my glasses".

Check this out for a longer explanation: [Source]

PS: (3) feels "wrong" to me, but I'm not sure why.

2
6 days ago
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Shamugan
Level: 689

It's easier if you add or for the first one:

1. (は)メガネをつけません -> He did not find the glass.

2. メガネがつかりません -> The glass are not found.

3. メガネがつけられない -> The glass wasn't "able" to be found.

Both 3 are closer to "the glass aren't found" than "I can't find my glass". And it's good thing that you are not sure about it. Because thinking "I can't find my glasses" is more like the english way of talking about that.

1 alone is more like a statement, a report. By itself, it does not fit the "ugh, I can't find my glass" type of situation.

3 insist on the fact that something prevent the glass to be found (whether it's because of your ability or the situation). You may think "Ah, then I can say 'I can't find my glass' with that one, no?" and yes, you can... Until a japanese ask you "なんでつけられないの?" (Why can't you find the glass? What is the reason you weren't able to found the glass?). It's not the sentence that you would say in a "I can't find my glass! Where are my glass? Do you know where I put my glass?" type of situation. You more likely to encounter that version in sentences like:

  • くてつけられない -> It's dark, so I can't find it
  • がなくてつけられない -> there was no time, so I couldn't find it

And finally, 2 is the closest from what you want to say (At least, if what you want to say is the "ugh, I can't find my glass" type of situation). But it does not mean "I can't find my glass". It's more like "the glass are in the state of not-being-found". And that's just how japanese express the same thing but with a different perspective. If you think in terms of translation, yeah, it's "I can't find my glass". But at the translation layer you can't really understand that kind of difference. Well, it's not that you can't but just, it's harder to understand and also misleading past a certain point. If you keep having that kind of question, try to search for japanese explanation and definition (and also do more immersion if you can). While it's seems like a big step (and kinda is), it's honnestly easier than trying to make some EN->JP translations.

5
5 days ago
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elbatrofmoc
Level: 412

That's great - thanks a lot for such a detailed explanation! I have to say, very counterintuitive for a beginner - the first sentence would be my guess. Anyway, this has been my intuition for a while now too - that most attempts at direct translation are often bound to be pretty inaccurate. I just hope it gets better with more exposure to the language.

2
5 days ago
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Shamugan
Level: 689

It does get better with more exposure and time, you don't need to hope because it will as long as you don't give up =p.
Also, for the first sentence, I did say "By itself". I'm not taking responsability for other context xD
But immersion will solve that problem as long as you observe that kind of sentence in enough context!

ってね~

1
5 days ago
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