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This topic is tied to the below grammar expression in the grammar library.
If A

Example(s)

 だったら    だけ  って もらって    さっさと     
If it was me, I would accept just the meal then hurry on home afterwards.
When A; after A (then B)

Example(s)

   いたら     する   
I will give you a call after I get home.
When A, then B

Example(s)

シャワー   びたら     すっきり した  
I felt refreshed after showering.
How about A; why don't you A

Example(s)

その      したら どう だい  
Why don't you apply for that job?
Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese > Grammar Library Talk



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Years Studied: 9
Studying: への、ビジネス
Level: 1, : 214
On meaning 1, I think the top one is supposed to say "[Adjective: た form] A + ら" but it doesn't. What I see is: "[] A + ら". When I click to see examples, I see adjectives.
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11 years ago (Edited 11 years ago.)
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Site admin
Level: 22, : 4,073
Fixed, thanks!
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11 years ago
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Years Studied: Since 2001
Level: 1, : 126
1. The third basic usage type When A, after A, then B--says the second clause is in non past form. But the third example sentence has the second clause in past form.

2. Another note: What about the meaning where, When A happened, surprisingly B happened. Like: ったら、さんがていました。When I came home, Mr. Tanaka was there (unexpectedly). I mention this usage, but I also have a few questions about it: How often is this type of ‾ たらused in reality? And how can you tell if someone means this unexpected event as opposed to two events that occurred in succession in the past? I would love some light shed on this topic.

3. One more way to use ~たらis to refer to improbable things happening. Like もしになったら、V-non past. If I become famous, I'll do V. Similarly, you can say しっぱいだったら、げなかった。If I had made a blunder, I wouldn't have gotten a good grade, implying that I did get a good grade.
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10 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 22, : 4,073
1. Fixed to non-past, thanks.

2. I'll ask about this if I get a chance!

3. Do you think this is (the 'improbable' bit) actually a different meaning, a more an extension of the 'if/then' formation? I'll have to ask a friend, but I'm guessing that you could probably use it to represent something that is probable as well. I'm looking at the entry in the Basic Grammar Dictionary (the big, huge grammar dictionaries you can find just about everywhere), and it makes no reference to this 'usage'.

So, I feel like this is more just an example of how an if/then or action1->action2 structure can be extended. What do you think?
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10 years ago
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Years Studied: Since 2001
Level: 1, : 126
3. そうですね… Okay, I think I agree with you now that these "usages" are really just extensions of the same usage. We have model sentences to show how different situations/ideas can be conveyed. Thanks!

Edit:
I was just looking over my old notes and found something. The past tense usage of ‾たら always means a surprise situation. Is this really true? えば、
Verb A-tara + Verb B-ta (past tense) = surprise situation!
ったら、った。X
You can't say this because it couldn't have been a surprise situation. Do you see what I mean? I have this rule in my notes distinctly.. Can anyone confirm this?
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10 years ago (Edited 10 years ago.)
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Years Studied: 2
Studying: 2
Level: 1, : 55
な-adjective: た form+ら

Is this not supposed to be な-adjective+ だった +ら?
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10 years ago (Edited 10 years ago.)
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Site admin
Level: 22, : 4,073
Technically, it was correct (た means past, casual form, so だった), but I agree that it could be cleared, so I've switched it up. Thanks!!
0
10 years ago
Years Studied: 2
Studying: JLPT4
Level: 1, : 72
Sorry for bothering again, but what's the difference between the 3rd and 4th usage? And something else, is なら and たら the same? What's the difference?
0
9 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 22, : 4,073
One is a series of events that may or may not be cause-effect related, while one shows a cause-effect relationship.

As to なら/たら, I'll have to leave someone else to answering that - I have a very fuzzy understanding of it from soaking it up from those around me - someone that knows it on a more technical side will be better at explaining it.
0
9 years ago
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Years Studied: 11 months
Studying: This site
Level: 1, : 318
could you possibly use this version of the "if" when saying something along the lines of

If i did it, i didnt meant to? in that sense of well if it happened blah blah blah
もしやったら、つもりじゃなかったよ
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9 years ago
Level: 1, : 1
Vましたらというのは"if"のことだ。 ではない。だからからない。
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7 years ago (Edited 7 years ago.)
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Level: 116, : 212
The third sentence of the first usage uses なら instead of たら .
Also, the adjective construction examples say  たり instead.
1
2 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 22, : 4,073
Fixed both issues!
0
2 years ago
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Years Studied: Many on and off
Studying: N2
Level: 141, : 777

Can someone explain to me the difference between #2 and #3, please? They look quite the same to me.

Btw... "This is used to given a suggestion, A, to whomever the sentence is directed at. " should be "give" instead of "given" (notes #4)

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3 months ago
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Site admin
Level: 22, : 4,073

Cleaned up the meanings a bit, moved relevant info up from the notes into the secondary meaning.

0
3 months ago
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Years Studied: Many on and off
Studying: N2
Level: 141, : 777

I have just watched this lesson on youtube. Though the explanation is not perfectly clear to me, there doesn't necessarily seem to be a cause/effect relationship in the "tara + past tense" construction.
For some reason I have been totally oblivious to the fact the #3 uses past tense. Now I wonder where I should put the example sentence I had originally written under #3, for it uses present tense. (りたらすのがだ。) Is it closer to #1 or #2?

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3 months ago
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Level: 116, : 212

たら can be translated as 'when' (meaning #2) if the condition before it represents a certainty. For instance:

になったら = when you grow up (you surely will at some point)

っていたら = if I had known (but I didn't)

たら = when/if the teacher comes (based on context, e.g. at the start of class 'when', misbehaving in the schoolyard 'if').

Words like もし can help in case of such ambiguity (もし is always 'if').

So, it depends on your intent, but I would probably put your sentence under #1.

0
3 months ago (Edited 3 months ago.)
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