Vocabulary dictionary

Kanji dictionary

Grammar dictionary

Sentence lookup

test
 

Forums -

This topic is tied to the below grammar expression in the grammar library.
 
1. Follows A; turning the sentence into a question (casual).
2. A's B (shows possession)
           
Her computer is old.
3. The A one
Used to abbreviate after a noun has already been mentioned. The の directly replaces the noun.
           つもりです  
For my new shoes, I plan on buying inexpensive ones.
4. A directly modifies B, B of A
Broadly works as the preposition 'of'
                 
I got the first email from him in awhile.
5. B who/that is a(n) A
                   
The Prime Minister Sato lives nearby.
6. C which/whose A is B. C's A is B
Used as a relative clause to describe C
あの             
That person with the long hair is my younger sister.
Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese > Grammar Library Talk

Page: 2 of 2



avatar
マイコー
Level: 262

We are actually in the process of adding more model sentences to the library - we finally have time now that the asset production for adventure mode is done for a couple of months.

#5 jumped down to #6, but it is fixed. The data was right, but it was getting mixed up. #6 should only be A の B.

Here's how to think of #6 - Both A and B are the same thing. Doctor + person, pikachu + pokemon, etc. #4 is broader in its usage.

1
4 years ago
Report Content
avatar
gdartfow
Level: 1488

It's called apposition, where you have two nouns phrases referring to the same object.

It's usually used either to help uniquely identify it:

* My house, the second one from the left, is up for sale.

* I'm here today with one of my attorneys, Mark Frisby.

Or to provide more information about it, such as clarification, context or explanation:

* Aldebaran, the brightest star in the Taurus constellation, is a red giant.

* A defender of maidens everywhere, Sir Gawain came to her rescue.

In your example, 'who is from Japan' isn't a noun, but a relative clause.

Compare that with: Mr. Suzuki, the Japanese prime minister = さん

Since they're both descriptions of the same person, there's no need to modify their relationship with words like 'from' or 'in', as in usage #4.

1
4 years ago
Report Content
avatar
|マルコ|
Level: 110

Usage 5 is missing something, example from this greatbow item description text from DarkSouls 1:

h0smcd5aef0qatuy7cveqjbgk.png

ゴーいた (の)
The construction under 5 doesn't mention that verbs can be used
Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that grammar point should mention that in the first particle spot の/が are interchangeable, I think that

ゴーいた (の)
would still be correct

0
3 years ago
Report Content
avatar
マイコー
Level: 262

Your explanation sounds correct to me, but let me check on it first before I make any updates!

1
3 years ago
Report Content
avatar
マイコー
Level: 262

I added it! Not sure if the definition should be adjusted without making it overly complicated in meaning.

1
3 years ago
Report Content
avatar
|マルコ|
Level: 110

Just found something else missing about の, though is more like のだ/のです so maybe it needs its own entry.
example sentence:

べるんだ="eat it"

As a native explained it to me:
a command, but the feeling is, "this is what you do, this is what is expected of you now"

someone else (non-native) explained it as "it's a command, kind of.. it's more like it's saying what the expectation is and then indirectly telling the listener to follow that expectation"

It's curious I didn't find this grammar point in most resources... unless I've been searching wrong...
but in this link https://www.tomojuku.com/blog/... under usage 5 it mentions the "" usage, even though is only one example sentence.

2
3 years ago
Report Content
avatar
マイコー
Level: 262

I'll need to find some time to gather some more information on this, but what an interesting usage!

0
3 years ago
Report Content
avatar
|マルコ|
Level: 110

I ended up bumping into it because of this line from a game: https://i.imgur.com/04NmehD.png (entire conversation here -> https://youtu.be/BVBx6jQtwUo?t=4542 with that line at 1:15:42) and I wasn't sure if するのよ was acting like a volitional (しよう) or like a potential (できる) or like something else, so someone suggested it might have been actually closer to のだ. But all of this needs verification indeed

Some more information at this page titled https://niwasaburoo.amebaownd.... , scroll down to "34.6 /ナイ(+のだ)"
But from other pages I'm seeying that のだ has at least 3 frequent different usages

On another note, I think this page is lacking the usage of "explanatory の" , which might be related to のだ, this page for example https://www.jpf.go.jp/j/projec... categorizes it as のだ but I think that should only be "の" the same way Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar has it at page 322

DoBJG actually says at page 324 "The sentence-final の is derived from のだ/のです through deletion of だ/です."
Therefore I correct my previous statement, probably "explanatory-no" usage should go in a separate pages with the のだ usages

0
3 years ago
Report Content
avatar
|マルコ|
Level: 110

I'm not convinced by the description of grammar point 5, which is "C which/whose A is B. C's A is B", and this is besides my aversion for the excessive abstraction 3 letters often bring xD
Let's take this sentence from the grammar quiz SRS that is linked to point 5:

ずまたここでおう。」とした。

if we apply that reasoning, this is what we get:


A = Cherry Tree
B = flower
C = to bloom

C which/whose A is B
result : To bloom which/whose Cherry Tree is flower
correct/expected: cherry tree flowers bloom

What we get clearly makes no sense, but I do not think the sentence is the problem here, I think the grammar point is not being general enough.
I think this is the same grammar explained under in DoBJG as:
In relative clauses, the subject may be marked by の, as in:

が/のきのうはドイツのだった。
The movie I saw yesterday was a German film.

ジョンが/のべたステーキ
the steak that John ate

So I think the description for grammar point 5 should actually be "Subject marker in relative clauses", which I believe still works with the other example sentences as well, for example the main example sentence for that point: あのです。
あのis a relative clause modifying

Quoting this link https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Japanese/Lessons/Relative_Clauses Japanese relative clauses are formed by placing the modifying clause immediately in front of the noun it modifies. The modifying clause acts much like an adjective (which it can also consist of).
Which support that relative clause can also end in adjectives, like the い above, so what I wrote should be correct :)

0
2 years ago
Report Content
avatar
マイコー
Level: 262

I think you're parsing that sentence incorrectly.

A

B

C

Are the three parts - The time which has cherry blossoms blooming.

You could, of course, mark is under a section for relative clauses, but the organization of data is naturally going to be subjective. I felt that people who see that の are going to think "Why is a の here?", and I placed the entry in this spot so they'd have a better chance of finding what they are looking for.

That being said, I'm happy to look at the way the English is written and make some clarifying adjustments.

1
2 years ago
Report Content
avatar
マイコー
Level: 262

The notes under the entry do mention the conversion from が, and the main definition does reference relative clauses (keep in mind that many definitions are two lines, not just the first). So if you were to adjust the meaning that is already there, how would you specifically change it?

0
2 years ago
Report Content
avatar
|マルコ|
Level: 110

I think you're right, I've parsed that incorrectly indeed (;_;)
Sorry for that wall of text, I don't think it need changing anymore (._.) I'll think more carefully next time >_<

0
2 years ago
Report Content
Getting the posts


Page: 2 of 2



Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese > Grammar Library Talk


Loading the list
Lv.

Sorry, there was an error on renshuu! If it's OK, please describe what you were doing. This will help us fix the issue.

Characters to show:





Use your mouse or finger to write characters in the box.
■ Katakana ■ Hiragana