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This topic is tied to the below grammar expression in the grammar library.
ずに
1. Without A..ing
ノック  せずに   部屋         
Don't come into my room without knocking.
Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese > Grammar Library Talk



guest
I'm trying to refresh my memory without searching the grammar database but I'm drawing a blank. The verbal way to use this is....?? Like when speaking.
0
11 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 110, : 6,629
Maybe just ...‾ないで?, or are you looking for something more formal?
0
11 years ago
guest
I was looking for something a little more formal, yes,^^;;
I always tend to feel like I'm being too informal.
0
11 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 110, : 6,629
I'm pretty sure ずに would come across as formal in spoken language. Hmm..listening to the teachers around me, I will also hear (in speeches, whatever) something along the lines of

めることなく、

Although that also (I believe) has a bit more punch to it.

Back to the issue, though, I'm pretty sure a ずに followed by an appropriate conjugation at the end of the sentence would be as polite as you need to be. If I remember (my mind is a bit spotty, so I probably won't), I'll ask someone tomorrow.
0
11 years ago
avatar
Years Studied: Too many
Studying: Intermediate Japanese Revised (Plus anything I find)
Level: 783, : 945

While reading a children's novel I came across just ず with no に。It has the phrase かず、does the comma replace the に in this writing or am I looking at some other grammar point that I am just unaware of.

1
6 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 110, : 6,629

Just looked it up - they are slightly different.


ずに meanings "without", as in, A ずに B = "doing B without doing A"

Here's an example:

らずにしてしまった。 Shows you not doing something you'd normally do with the following action.


であきらめず、までってください。

Not quite the same - in this case, it is "don't do A, do B"


までれず、させられました。

In this case, it shows a tight link between the lack of A and it causing B. In this case, "I didn't/couldn't do A, so B"


These examples, by the way, are from the EXCELLENT . It's made for teachers of Japanese, or high level students. Very, very good explanations (although it's 100% Japanese)


http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E8%AA%9...

9
6 years ago
avatar
Years Studied: Too many
Studying: Intermediate Japanese Revised (Plus anything I find)
Level: 783, : 945

Thanks for the help. I think once I get a little stronger in Japanese I will pick up that book.

0
6 years ago
Level: 58, : 52

Hey everybody:-) quick question - I saw in one of the examples for わる that this form is used without the に - so, ...いつもとわらず... is this a mistake, a different grammar or maybe an exception? Thank you:-)kao_yoroshiku.png

0
2 months ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 110, : 6,629

I did a quick search, and came up with this note: ざっぱにいえば、 「ずに」=「ないで」、 「ず」=「なくて」です。

So, ずに and ず can both be used depending on the structure of the sentence.

More info: https://detail.chiebukuro.yaho...

0
2 months ago
Getting the posts




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