和 英 辞 典 Vocabulary dictionary
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掲 示 板 Forums -
This topic is tied to the below grammar expression in the grammar library.
1 . As for A ; when it comes to the example A
Shows an extreme example A . Has a negative connotation.
。
As for this here, he said that he was innocent.
2 . Shows an extreme situation A
Followed by a change/realization that (finally) occurs because of A . Words like やっと and ようやく often follow A .
、 。
When I had a stress fracture, I finally understood that I was practicing too much.
3 . Despite an extreme situation A
Followed by change/result that has not happened despite A occurring. Words like まだ often follow.
3 。
Even at the end of the fiscal year in March, it looks unlikely that (e.g. work) will be finished.
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you can also use 至 る and 至 らず as well - the former having the same general meaning as 至 って, the latter meaning something along the lines of 'without reaching such a situation'
Added the first. Do you think the latter would fit better as a new expression?
yeah - maybe another usage on the same page? Or something on it's own?
The Kanzen Master grammar book for N1 has separate entries for ~に至 って・~に至 っても and ~に至 っては with separate usage and definition information. Assuming that information is accurate, perhaps this page could be updated to reflect that? The current information matches that given in Kanzen Master for ~に至 っては, but it doesn't really explain how to use ~に至 って・~に至 っても, which is supposedly used for extreme situations and their results, and which can be used with verbs in addition to nouns.
Did a bit of digging around, this is what I got. Let me know if you are seeing the same:
いたって - used to mark a time or situation when something extreme/drastic happens. N/V precedes it.
いたっては - given on this page, but needs to be noted that it's only used for negative statements.
いたっても - similar to #1, used to mark an extreme time or situation, but it followed with something that hasn't been done/achieved yet (negative phrase).
Sounds about right. This is what Kanzen Master shows:
~に
至 って・~に
至 っても:
普 通 では
考 えられない
状 態 を
表 す
言 葉 につく。「~に
至 って」の
後 には、
事 態 がそこまで
進 んでやっとどうなったか、「~に
至 っても」の
後 には、
進 んでもどうならないかを
言 う
文 が
来 る。
~に
至 っては：
全 体 としてあきれた、ひどいという
評 価 を
表 す。
程 度 が
極 端 な
例 につく。
後 には、その
例 がどんな
状 態 かを
言 う
文 が
来 る。
Ok, added them! We're pretty backlogged on getting model sentences added to the ones without examples, but we'll get there at some point.
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