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This topic is tied to the below grammar expression in the grammar library.
 かぎ    かぎ 
1. Only A (A is a special condition)
この                
These fish are 50 yen each, but only for today.
2. Shows unfortunate action B right at the time/situation A
Carries the nuance of "Just at the time A, something terrible/undesirable happens." Similar to "Of all the luck, ...", or "Just at the worst possible time, ..."
その          だった  
He was absent only on that day.
3. Because of trust/confidence/belief in A, B
The clause B is usually a statement that the speaker strongly believes in. Often rejects a negative action (He/she would never do such a thing).
この メーカー     こんな ダサい         
This maker would never make such unfashionable clothes.
Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese > Grammar Library Talk



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Years Studied: ???
Studying: JLPT N2/N1 -------- 44 Games Completed in Japanese
Level: 110, : 344

にかぎって on top of this page is written twice

0
6 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 110, : 6,632

Fixed, thanks!

0
6 years ago
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Years Studied: Many on and off
Studying: N2
Level: 657, : 2,878

I was just watching a grammar lesson on youtube. According to them, にかぎって has a somewhat different meaning. Apparently it is often used with a negative context, as mentioned in the user note from berndbausch 7 years ago. Isn't that worth splitting this entry into two sections?

2
2 years ago
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Years Studied: ???
Studying: JLPT N2/N1 -------- 44 Games Completed in Japanese
Level: 110, : 344

I agree with Karlla, にかぎり are にかぎって are not interchangeable thus shouldn't be listed together, quoting what "A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar" page 251 says:

"The phrase にかぎって is used to express an exclusive focus on a topic item X. The predicate is either explicitly negative or implicitly negative. An explicitly affirmative predicate cannot occur with にかぎって"
Therefore taking the example sentence on top of the page, if it was:

100って、サービスげます

seems it would be questionable from a grammar correctness point.

1
1 year ago (Edited 1 year ago.)
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Level: 110, : 6,632

Let me dig into this a bit, I'll have something for you later today. I must have missed Karlla's mention of it when they last posted. Sorry!

0
1 year ago
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Site admin
Level: 110, : 6,632

Ok, so I'm in the midst of researching this, and while I am not sure this page should be split up, there needs to be additional entries. It seems that while a lot of the above information is not incorrect per se, it is not complete, either.

#1 (New usage) AにかぎってB - Shows unfortunate (and often expected) result B when A occurred.

#2 (Current usage) Aにかぎって/にかぎり - Only on/for [A] - there is not a presumed positive or negative connotation.

#3 AにかぎってB - Because of full trust/faith/confidence in A, shows positive expectation B.

Now, it appears to me that the Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar is not covering all the uses. It does not cover several of the ones mentioned in Shin Kanzen master, so it can be tricky to see a usage and assume that it is the *only* way to use it.

So I believe that while the information on renshuu is correct, it's not complete.

So, here are some sources I am referencing:

DIJG (mentions only #1)

Shin Kanzen (mentions all three)

https://nihongokyoshi-net.com/... (mentions all three usages)

https://www.mlcjapanese.co.jp/... (mentions all three)

https://nihongonosensei.net/?p... (mentions only #1)

https://chiyo-sampo.net/gramma... (mentions all three)

So, my proposed changes would be to keep the current meaning/usage (#2), and add two more (#1 and #3). I'd love to see what your thoughts are before making this change, @Karlla and @MarcusAseth

1
1 year ago
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Years Studied: ???
Studying: JLPT N2/N1 -------- 44 Games Completed in Japanese
Level: 110, : 344
Now, it appears to me that the Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar is not covering all the uses...
DIJG (mentions only #1)

After checking again, it does cover all 3 usages you mentioned, it just splits and group them differently :)

り(the #2) is at page 85 while にって(#1 and #3) are both explained under the same entry at page 251.
They try to cover both #1 and #3 under the same umbrella by saying "a compound particle to show that only X is different from others" and they used examples such:
"Of all times, when I am in a hurry, the bus doesn't come for ages." for #1
and
"Our child, of all children, would not do such a terrible thing." for #3
but that description of the grammar point is so generic (to me) that I personally prefers yours where you split that in 2.
I've also asked on a japanese study server, and a native confirmed that in #2 にかぎって/にかぎり both can be used, so I was wrong there :P
Finally to me personally, I find harder to reason about these things in terms of A's and B's and often reading those I kind of end up equally or more confused, so if it was up to me the explanation of the grammar point would do without them, for example
#1 complain about an event happening at the worst possible time. "Of all the times, it rains only when I forget my umbrella..."
#3 express full trust/faith/confidence in someone. "Of all childrens, my child could never do such a thing!"

But I understand that is only my personal preference and the A/B pattern is used in pretty much all the grammar points in the site so would be too late to change that, so ignore this :D

0
1 year ago
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Years Studied: Many on and off
Studying: N2
Level: 657, : 2,878

I haven't looked into this topic since I last posted here, so I'm not up to date. But I'm in for anything that helps clarify the different usages of these expressions. That being said, I agree with the expansion of the topic.

i also agree with Marcus that the AxB pattern is sometimes confusing. :)

0
1 year ago
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Site admin
Level: 110, : 6,632

Split them up, added example sentence!

I understand the A/B thing, but it is useful in binding the parts of the expression to the usage patterns shown below (moreso with certain expressions).

0
1 year ago
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Years Studied: Many on and off
Studying: N2
Level: 657, : 2,878

Why is the never of this example sentence in parentheses? It doesn't make sense without the word, and the Japanese sentence has a ない in it, too.

#3 "This maker would (never) make such unfashionable clothes."

0
1 year ago
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Site admin
Level: 110, : 6,632

That was a mistake, sorry! Fixed it up.

0
1 year ago
Level: 181, : 2

it says im unable to study this in my grammar list because no quiz is available, or something to that effect. specifically the 2nd out of the 3 entries.

0
1 month ago
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Site admin
Level: 110, : 6,632

Unfortunately, there is still a chunk of grammar elements that do not have quiz questions available for them. I'm working on a batch of them for the N1 level expressions, but it's unfortunately pretty slow moving.

0
1 month ago
Getting the posts




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