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Top > renshuu.org > Questions about renshuu



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|マルコ|
Level: 110

https://youtu.be/soM6y6VxmNY?t...

I was curious to know about the state of this writing mode, to know if I can start mention it to people studying kanjis or if is too early still :)

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4 years ago
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SirEdgar
Level: 1242

just replying to also voice my interest in a Kanji writing (quizzing) mode utilizing renshuu's SRS - I know there are so many other things in development and a lot of content creation is also on the plate, but it feels like this would be a very great addition to an already great site! (^_^)

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4 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 256

So much - working as fast as we can!

I do have plans for this - it would probably be a vector alongside everything else. Not sure if it'll be free or not.

The site is unable to determine direction of stroke, or very tiny things (like if you hook a stroke at the end or not). If you did into the code (I wouldn't recommend it, hah), it is loosely based on how well your stroke covers where the stroke should (in terms of colored pixels). It would not, for example, allow you to draw it slightly smaller, but still have everything in the right order, and count that right.

So it is somewhat limited - it is not a true grading system. Based on what you've seen on the introduction phase of new kanji, would you be satisfied with a duplication of that system in the quizzing? The one thing I could see is the following two things:

1. Remove the colored marking, so you would have to remember the order.

2. Show and then remove the kanji background - but it would probably feel weird if yours was right (but the "wrong" size), and got penalized because of that.

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4 years ago
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SirEdgar
Level: 1242

A mode I could imagine would be that you are told what you are to write (meaning of kanji + on/kun readings) and then have the same field from the Kanji introduction but without showing you what to put where (obviously). When you think you are done you indicate so by sending your reponse and the site could check:

- number of strokes (to catch those items where we are to do something in one continuous stroke, but the user does it in two or more instead). If the user fails this, the Kanji written is considered wrong

- %-age of overlap with the target Kanji

Out of the %-age of overlap one could derive a grade similar to what is done on the Kanji introduction page, where then for example an overlap over a certain threshold (90%? 95%?) would be considered correct, items below a certain threshold (50%?) incorrect, and the middle ground something the user has to decide?

Or instead, just generally tell the user how far off they were by showing this information (Kanji written superimposed with Kanji target where overlaps are highlighted in green or similar) with the information on % overlap and the number of target and done strokes (with some fancy color encoding to show that strokes match or don't match and if it was a high or low % overlap) and then have the user decide on their own if it was right "enough" for them or wrong (i.e. anki-style or like with the sentence comprehension vector).







To end with a wild/random thought on recognition while writing and to maybe give a source of inspiration: I know of one Android App called "Japanese Kanji Tree" (https://play.google.com/store/...) which had an interesting approach where they move your strokes to the correct position after you did them with a fluid animation drawing the users attention on what they did and where it should have went, including then an accuracy-% displayed for each individual stroke after it was done (if that stroke-accuracy was too low the stroke was counted as mistake and it was not shown where it should go, so you have to keep guessing/retrying the same stroke in order to get it at least as close as possible to where it should be; after three mistakes the Kanji was considered failed, otherwise the whole Kanji got a accuracy-% rating).
I liked the way this app teaches and tests writing, but at least the last time I used it it didn't have any SRS, meaning that I could not really rely on the app quizzing me more on things I struggle with and less on things I am good at (which gets tedious rather fast the more Kanji's one learned). I could sort and test myself by the %-rating of the Kanjis (e.g. from lowest to highest) but while that helped in nailing down those I got wrong too much, the chances where to high that if I did exceptionally well the first few times for a certain Kanji that I will never be quizzed about them again (to see/check if I can still do them from the top of my head months later).

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4 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 256

Thanks for the feedback. I do not expect to be able to really upgrade it much right now due to time constraints. Naturally, a well-made app like that is going to be able to focus on that single thing much more, but I unfortunately cannot devote that much time to a relatively minor thing within renshuu. One of the reasons I'm shifting more to content and games/game-like stuff is that I think it'll be a better draw to new users, which I need to get renshuu big enough so that I can continue to actively develop for it. I'd love to work on this more, but right now, when it comes to larger time investments, I have to measure things on a "is this going to help new users or not", and base decisions on that.

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4 years ago
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|マルコ|
Level: 110

I was just curious in terms on knowing reasons I can bring up when I recommend the site to new people, not because I think I would use the feature since writing is not one of my priorities :)

Though if the decision was up to me, I would see it like this: a chain is as strong as the weaker link, or, a game is as good as the its least polished component.
Meaning that, if this mode is somehow going to generate frustration in new users because they have to write the kanji a certain size, because they can't get the size right when they hide the background kanji, because they blame the site for not warning them their stroke direction is wrong etc... then, it might not be a bad idea to lose the feature altogether... my opinion is by no mean the correct one, just my opinion xD

Another way this could work is like this:
the user is provided with meaning/on/kun for the kanji he needs to write, he writes it, advances the quiz, and then what he wrote appears side by side with the correct kanji, and he judges himself (like already happens on Sentence SRS).
I don't see this having any potential to generate complaints on any new users, it is as simple as effective

This I think would be actually amazing, lets not underestimate how many people want to write but are simply too lazy to write on a piece of paper and don't want to look up and down between paper and screen (basically me xD)

Also this could be further improved (from a conceptual point of view, no idea about the technical side) by having them side by side animated (after the answer is given), where the user's writing speed is modified so that each of his strokes are timed (begin-finish) at the same time of a stroke in the site's kanji animation,for easy comparison

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4 years ago
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|マルコ|
Level: 110

Just a small addition: I don't know how easy it is to have the strokes animated and ability to time the strokes, but as you can see in the clip below, a software called Zkanji does it, and its code is visible to anyone trough github, so I'm throwing this info around in case taking a look at that code might help :)

https://streamable.com/ye39c7

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4 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 256

I'm actually familiar with that animation style, and it's on my list (more towards the bottom than the top) to implement it in some way on renshuu!

I also agree - the thing with most users (this is not unique to renshuu) is that they don't complain, they just leave. I'm lucky to have so many users who are willing to give feedback, but you're right, it needs to be at a reasonable standard to make it worthwhile.

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4 years ago
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JCG813
Level: 364

I would be happy with something as simple as somewhere that I can choose kana/kanji/terms and be given the same option to practice writing again as what was presented when I first learned them.

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4 years ago
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