掲示板 Forums - What is your methods of study for grammar?

A teacher once told me: when you've repeated a word 19 times, you have learned it. Maybe the same goes for grammar? ;)
I find it useful to write down a few sentences including the grammar rule(s) in question and repeat them out loud over and over. And afterward make up sentences in my head without writing anything first when more familiar with the grammar and do the same thing: repeat repeat repeat.

Dunno if it's helpful in any way, or if that's what you're already doing and are searching new more interesting ways... ともかく、頑張ってね!

- Simone

This is a tough question, I've tried to figure this out many times. Especially for someone doing self study without any guidance (such as myself also!).

The way that has worked for me so far :

Read a new grammar point, study it, find examples and how it is used. Find a way to spot patterns.

Once you think you know a pattern, do a few exercises using the grammar point, feel free to use any reference.

Do some Vocabulary or Kanji, then come back to the exercises and try to do them without using any references.

Keep repeating this many times, you will start to remember (eventually)! I also reference the grammar here on renshuu and read the example sentences.

What materials are you using for study? And what are you trying to accomplish?

[quote author=宮本勝利 link=topic=998.msg5684#msg5684 date=1286228442]
[quote author=Ladymercury link=topic=998.msg5676#msg5676 date=1286216346]
Grammar is never anyone's strong point in any language and like the majority, I'm struggling through the grammar for Japanese. [/quote]

I beg to differ. I love grammar! (wow did that ever sound nerdy...)

Anyhow, as Andrew said, using grammar in context is the best way to assimilate new grammar into your arsenal. Try using new grammar points with Japanese friends or classmates, or if they are hard to come by, at the very least try thinking/speaking to yourself in Japanese. While the last suggestion may sound like the road to a mental institution (just don't have a conversation with yourself, people might begin to fear you haha), it's a good way to exercise your brain and ingrain those new grammar structures.

Rote memorization (pure repetition) might be fine for cramming for a test, but it's not really good for assimilating things into your long term memory.
[/quote]

Its weird, because I can "think in Japanese" but I can't put it on paper.


[quote author=darkje link=topic=998.msg5679#msg5679 date=1286225997]
This is a tough question, I've tried to figure this out many times. Especially for someone doing self study without any guidance (such as myself also!).

The way that has worked for me so far :

Read a new grammar point, study it, find examples and how it is used. Find a way to spot patterns.

Once you think you know a pattern, do a few exercises using the grammar point, feel free to use any reference.

Do some Vocabulary or Kanji, then come back to the exercises and try to do them without using any references.

Keep repeating this many times, you will start to remember (eventually)! I also reference the grammar here on renshuu and read the example sentences.

What materials are you using for study? And what are you trying to accomplish?
[/quote]

I am always googling for "real world" examples of the grammar usage to better understand its context, as notes only go as so far lol. But the using newly learned vocabulary and applying to the new grammar is great idea, thanks :)!


[quote author=安努龍 link=topic=998.msg5678#msg5678 date=1286225679]
Cramming repetition into a single setting may help you to remember a grammar point for the next day or so, but if you truly want to understand a grammar point, you have to use it in conversation or in writing multiple times over a longer period of time. That's what this website is all about!

I haven't seen the grammar quizzes in beta (are they included yet?), but this could be a big boon to you, Ladymercury.

I definitely struggle with grammar, even with the apparently awesome grammar book I'm plowing through for the N1 JLPT. I find that using the grammar with an actual Japanese person really helps to put it in context for me. I luckily just found a language exchange partner for this purpose, so I'm going to take advantage of it for the next few weeks before the test!

Actually, Ladymercury, may I ask what resources you use to study grammar?
[/quote]

I really do like the sentence practice here :) I do wish though there was more in correcting others if there's mistakes? I always feel like I'm doing things wrong and no ones correcting my sentences.

But I love testing. See, that's the thing, I wanna know that I'm getting it. While vocabulary is easy to learn, the grammar skills are easily forgotten if I'm not manually writing sentences or asking friends to see if I'm doing it right. I have a few friends who speak Japanese, one on a near fluent level, so I should talk to her more in Japanese than in English next time.

I use this site, Tae Kim, Yookoso 1, and the JFBP series (barely, I don't like how that book is set up). I also have a binder with a pretty complete guide to grammar notes printed out from a few years ago that I got from this one website... http://www.timwerx.net/language/jpverbs/index.htm

Which I recently dug up and realized I highlighted and wrote a lot of notes in it. Hunnnn...

I used to use Tae Kim but the explanations on the site never really made sense or were dumbed down for me to understand, also the boards at that site seems to be filled with highly advanced Japanese speakers so it becomes intimidating for someone like me who's just breaking into intermediate.

I think I briefly glanced at Genki when my friend showed me his copy of the text book but I never really got deep into it. I should though.

Also, I'm sorry I skipped your other question but the reason I'm focusing on grammar is for two reasons, one I explained in a previous thread that I want to have a stronger command of Japanese and that I want to pass the N5 this year. I took a mock test, the 2000 JLPT 4級, and did well on every section *but* the first 30 grammar questions, where I only got 50% correct. Not good, IMO.

When studying for 2kyuu I went through both the Kanzen Master book and ALC 500 Grammar points book (1 and 2kyuu are included) and translated the entire thing into a couple of notebooks. I then went through the Kanzen master book again and did every other sentence that time around. I still don't remember all of them but it helped me quite a bit I think. Of course, writing sentences on this site will also help but writing on paper first is what works best for me.

I had more of a problem with their lack of explanations for things. They would say a number of grammar points are related and then offer no explanation on when to use which. Sometimes a few points would be defined the exact same and again no further details were included to clue us in on the subtle differences. ALC is much better, especially if you buy their grammar dictionary as a reference.

I think this relates to this topic,

My biggest weak point in Japanese grammar is ni/de. While I understand them, somewhat, in their seperate usages... When I start to use them, I automatically blur the two together. When do I use de, when do I use ne? Can I use de like this or do I have to use ni and then de...

So, what methods did you guys use to kind of understand those particles?

and what exactly is the Kanzen Master?

Ah! I have 3 books of those then! Just got them 2 weeks ago, my sensei gave us the original to print out. We are having extra classes. Even though I'll take level 4 I taking those classes (level 3 oriented) because most of the jlpt takers on my course (7, lol) are taking level 3.

Extra classes just started this week.

Self-studying, it has sometimes been difficult to get a sense of spoken language, particularly as I often study during down times at work.

To get a better sense of it, even though I at a beginner level, I've been trying to translate the short passage news articles that I've found on the Space ALC site. They have accompanying translations to English and from what I've seen are usually less than a paragraph. [url=http://www.alc.co.jp/eng/newsbiz/headline/index.html]http://www.alc.co.jp/eng/newsbiz/headline/index.html[/url]

One thing that I like about the paragraphs, over individual sample sentences, is that context clues from prior sentences often help me figure out what's going on. I'm not certain if it's helpful in a sense of recognizing a grammar point as it is in building up more of an intuitive sense for what's being said.

I personally use ASK's grammar books for each of the JLPT levels. I know they don't have the grammar explanations in English, but I feel it gives you a better idea of what the grammar is.

After studying a particular grammar point I try to use it as much as possible in conversation. I know this might be possible outside of Japan, but you could write 5 sentences using the grammar and send it off to [url=http://lang-8.com]http://lang-8.com[/url] and a native speaker can correct you on it. Pretty handy site.

I just checked out the Japanese verb conjugator site too. That's really handy, too bad it's in romaji only. To me at least, Japanese looks weird in romaji anymore.

Good luck to everyone taking the JLPT!

Mac
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