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First A (is done, often in preparation), then B (as a result)

  1. First A (is done, often in preparation), then B (as a result)
  2. Indicates an important purpose/goal A
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16
     した        
After I check on the price, I'll buy it.
9
                    
After I eat breakfast and brush my teeth, I go to school.
14
                    
After the teacher reads the essay twice, he'll give it a grade.
4
あなたの     よく 調        しましょう  
I'll give you our answer after we go into your proposal in greater detail.

Getting the sentences
These user sentences have been verified by a native speaker.

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emmy
Level: 3
(10 years ago)
をよくしたうえでにさいんした。
I signed after carefully checking the contract.
0
1
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Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
AVerb: Casual, past (た)
BAction
Basic Examples:
えた (first (I'll) change clothes)

ANoun
Basic Examples:
(after the preparation)

AVerb: Casual, past (た)
BNoun
CAction
Related Expressions
Where this grammar is found


User notes
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Indicates an important purpose/goal A

  1. First A (is done, often in preparation), then B (as a result)
  2. Indicates an important purpose/goal A
1
                   
In order to undertake the job interviews, a resume is necessary.
1
                  した  
Since I will be studying abroad for a year, I turned in my school absence notification.

Getting the sentences
Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
ANoun
 
AVerb: Dictionary Form
 
 
Basic Examples:
(for one's livelihood)



User notes
1
The sentence that follows で does not have to be an action but, a statement like ”Doing such and such is useful/convenient/good" or "it is like the doctor/booklet/etc. instructions".
You cannot use で as ために.
9 years ago
Shirubi - Level 1

Discussion about this grammar
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Years Studied: 3
Studying: JLPT 2
Level: 1, : 105
Does this require both sentences to have the same actor, or can the subject in A be different from the one in B?
0
13 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
From the non-technical explanation I received, it's the same actor.
0
13 years ago
Studying: JLPT 2
Level: 1, : 67
I couldn't find this with a kanji query in the search engine.
0
13 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
Yea - I'll repeat our conversation for others - the site will be updated soon so a to handle searching for grammar on both the kanji, hiragana, or a mix of both. Thanks for pointing it out.
0
13 years ago
avatar
Years Studied: 3
Studying: JLPT N3 & JLPT 2
Level: 1, : 99
Update on the construction:

Noun + の +
の + Noun

このは、調でまとめられただ。
これは、よくよくっただから、えるわけにはいかない。
0
12 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
Hmm - how would you suggest writing the definition for the second usage?
0
12 years ago
avatar
Years Studied: 3
Studying: JLPT N3 & JLPT 2
Level: 1, : 99
The second example sentence has used that construction:

"...った..."

(It's not te-form + で), so maybe something like

sentence + + の + Noun + ActionB

Here are two more examples (taken from sentence library)

きまずいちんもくの、ビルはかのをとってのかいへっぱってった。
After an awkward pause, Bill took her by the hand and dragged her upstairs.

これはおそらくこせきをしらべたでしゅうしたのではないかといます。
I believe this may be a correction after investigation of his date of birth in the family register.
0
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
The first example is using うえ to mean 'above', and the second one is the じょう form of it. I was looking more for a good way to describe the sentence + + の + Noun + ActionB (although I bet it's always た form before the ) in english, in the way that the current meaning is First A (is done), then B. I'll keep thinking on it. I have an idea, but the site currently (I need to fix this) doesn't have a way of writing out that construction pattern (it's a bit complex as to why).
0
12 years ago
Level: 1, : 4
There seems to be a second meaning to the で construction. I am using the book, どんなどう使500 to study for JLPT 1 and 2. The book's explanations are written in Japanese, so I look for help on the internet too. Apparently, で can also be used to indicate purpose too, much like ために or ように. There are nuances, of course, I just don't know what it is. The description given for ~で is「~」というす. Here are two examples sentences taken from the book:

1. テレビはでかなりちます。
2. させるで、ぜひみんなのなのだ。

Again, I have a good idea how で is used. But it would really be nice to know how it is different from all the other ways of saying, more or less, "for the purpose of."
4
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
(Apologies for the late response)

I've looked in a few books that I have, but haven't been able to find any definitions that match what you have. That's not to say I don't think it's correct, just that I haven't been able to find anything backing that up.

If you have some time, I'd recommend reposting it in the site's general forums, asking to see if anyone else knows about it (they're viewed more often than these are). If we can get some consensus then we can definitely add it to this page!
0
12 years ago
avatar
Studying: JLPT N1
Level: 1, : 5
I agree with pentrixter! Today my Japanese teacher explained that meaning for で too and gave those same examples (I suppose she's using the same text book).
1
11 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
I will follow up on this with a Japanese teacher and see what they say.
0
11 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
Ok, checked. What we need to do before entering this into the dictionary is find/construct a specific list of forms that it can come in. So far (according to the examples), we have:

N + の
V-dictionary form +

Are there any others?
0
11 years ago
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Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
Alright, verified everything with a professor and updated the page!
1
11 years ago
avatar
Studying: JLPT N1
Level: 1, : 5
Thank you Michael!
0
11 years ago
Level: 1, : 10
I just wanted to say that when で is used as ”in order to” the sentence that follows does not have to be an action but, a statement like ”Doing such and such is useful/convenient/good" or "it is like the doctor/bookclet/etc. instructions". You cannot use で as ために. I was taught this by my Japanese teacher. I am sorry I was not able to explain it better to you. I will list here some of the sentence posted by the other users which are correct: だった。 テレビはでかなりちます。 I'm not sure about the one where つもり is used but I am sure these ones are corrected.
1
9 years ago (Edited 9 years ago.)
avatar
Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
That seems to fit under the second definition 'Indicates an important purpose/goal A' - feel free to add your notes as a Usage Note if you'd like so it gets more exposure!
1
9 years ago
Level: 1, : 10
Ok I will =) I hope these notes will help.
1
9 years ago
avatar
Years Studied: Many on and off
Studying: N2
Level: 689, : 3,021
According to my teachers A + たで + B means 'After making the necessary preparations (A) I'll decide what to do (B).' As a result B often includes the verb める or any other implied decision making. The construction, unlike ~てから, is not used for habitual actions.
The example sentence 「べてみがいたで、く。」sounds very much like habitual action. How does it fit into this construction?
0
3 years ago (Edited 3 years ago.)
avatar
Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
I'm doing a bit of reading in the A Dictionary of Intermediate Grammar (wonderful), and it expands on what your teacher said, just a bit.

a - The second part does not need a decision to made, simply an action to follow the preparatory action. It does say that the main action is relatively important, but it doesn't have to be a decision.

So it gives two examples, one with is not ok, one which is. 

調べたうえでにつく。He always goes to bed after looking at the following day's schedule.
> This one IS valid, and also represents a habitual action. It shows the schedule check as being preparation for going to bed. (and therefore facing the new day).

ずシャワーをびたうえでる。 He always takes a shower before going to bed.
> This one is not valid, as it supposedly lacks the sense of preparation.

So it sounds like your teacher's explanation is a bit too restrictive, as it can certainly show an action that is not an outright decision. I would personally say (and I checked with someone else who said it was ok) that brushing your teeth so you don't have bad breath is considered preparation for going to a social gathering (school).

Hope this helps!
1
3 years ago
avatar
Years Studied: Many on and off
Studying: N2
Level: 689, : 3,021
Thanks for the explanation. That helps.
Maybe my teacher was so restrictive, because that was the definition, we had to learn at that point. Teachers do not necessarily expand information beyond their schedule.^^

Yeah, I know this Grammar Dictionary is great. I have the basic version. Haven't got around to buying the intermediate and advanced ones, yet.
0
3 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 121, : 6,891
I definitely know that strategy. I often tell me students that this is the main definition, or this is the case 95% of the time, and that they only need to worry about this def now.
0
3 years ago



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