掲示板 Forums - Discussion: Usage Note / Word Linking upgrades

As the number of usage notes continues to grow (a few dozen each day!), I've noticed (or users have gotten in contact with me) some trends that need to be addressed. I'd love your input on any of the things below!

A. One usage note, multiple words

This one will be fixed very soon - when it's ready, any words that are marked with the # link will offer to link that usage note to both/all the words.

B. "Usage" notes

I've seen two general types of these notes: "how to use" (which is what I originally intended), and "this word is used in this other compound word". I am not sure if we want to keep this second group, and if so, where to put them in the future.

(fake) Example (how to use): "This word is typically used in business situations, and wouldn't be used between friends, family, etc."

Example (in another word): "This word 過労 is used in the concept 過労死

C. Alternate readings/words

This comes in two forms:

1. hiragana/katakana "synonyms" - such as カフェ and きっさてん. So the note would say on きっさてん "Katakana form: カフェ"

2. Alternate readings - I don't have one on hand, but they are something like this: on the word 戦い, it may says "Alternate reading: 戦"

In a broader sense, these are synonyms, but as I've heard from other users, it can be the case where the words are extremely similar, but not the same. Without notation on if they are 100% the same or not (and if not, how they differ), the question is should these even be allowed, or rejected outright.

All public usage notes are vetted by me, and I have some level of concern about similar/same meanings, as they open up a floodgate of potential comparisons between words, and if the usage notes become so varied and numerous that they are overwhelming, I think that more users are going to ignore them / turn them off / doubt the info on renshuu as a whole / etc.

D. Word Links

This is similar to C, but there have been suggestions to add synonyms (same meaning) and/or similar meanings to the word linking options. I have the same concerns as above (are they *really* the same? etc.). Additionally, the word links are meant to be just a word and a label, and there's not a spot in the UI to allow a discussion on the meaning differences, so I feel these are better noted in usage notes.

Again, I am thrilled with the number of entries we've seen so far, but I encourage any comments or discussion in the hopes that we can further expand/clarify the information that's coming in :)

The dictionary/word displays are already pretty complex, so adding another type of display would be troublesome, I think. I feel that the usage notes are still the best for this (under the Meaning header), but I'm open to suggestions.

Also, when the new update is finished and you can easily link one usage note to multiple terms, renshuu could piggy back off of that data and perhaps put a "related" tag for the words mentioned.

D. I think most people understand that synonyms don’t mean that the words are exactly the same, but that they are similar. But even though they have their differences synonyms are useful enough that we use them to bolster our understanding of words. From a SLA (second language acquisition) standpoint, synonyms help learners understand and remember words better and are recommended to be included when teaching new words. When I consider my students, whether I’m teaching English native speakers or second language learners I find that both groups of students find synonyms to be helpful and actively utilize synonyms for comprehension. They usually want to know how these synonyms differ once they establish that they are synonyms. I personally think that having synonyms available through links would be helpful. Especially when I run into two words that seem similar. It would be useful to jump to the synonym to take a closer look at the definitions, usage notes, and example sentences for context

Does it seem reasonable to you (and others) for the note filter to be as follows:

Filter usage notes out based on settings, but always show ones that you wrote?

The mnemonics for kanji, we can hide the ones that aren't useful to us. Would that be possible for words too? Or is that complicated by having other categories like usage, etc?

I fully agree with this. I think one layer in the discussion that is missing is that beginners use ''mistakes'' to learn the right ways. Todlers do this too and we all need to go through todler stage one way or another in a new language. For instance when i learned English i often mixed up synonyms (though no example springs to mind right now) and that's okay. As you progress and become more fluent you start to feel the differences. Well for instance a blanket and a duvet. They are not entirely the same, but it hardly hurts to mix them up, we all know you lay underneath them ands they belong to bed-textile. Ultimately its a feeling one gets as customs and cultures become more apparent through the language and we all learn from simple to hard. But without a way to attach one to the other it will only become harder. We all learn more by connection rather than cold knowledge allone.

The problem with masters (as anyone with a bad math teacher can attest) is that it is hard to look past cold knowledge once they mastered the subject. That's why teaching is such a hard job. (From a student's and mother's perspective.) You have to remember how you knew it, rather than what you know.

I feel making a category specifically for etymology may be a bit niche. I think 'other' suits it fine, personally (though it isn't used too much).

A general 'related words' section could be nice (not just including synonyms and antonyms, but words this word appears in/has the same stem as, etc) but that does seem like it'd be a lot of effort to add. 'Word categories' also come to mind, kind of like Wiktionary's. But that seems even more a headache.

Personally i am fully satisfied with the way things are. Some ppl have amazing helpfull comments. (Opinions on this of course vary.) Like one on the different uses on a verb. It's a long comment, but so informative. I wouldn't know where to put this info elsewhere.

Maybe a report comment option solves the issue. So that when advanced users find mistakes (or those who happen to know this one) can report it and it can be checked. I think that option is the simplest and works a little like wiki, which this way acquired a 85% accuracy.

This could also be used to report double comments. Some words have vife equal mnemonics.

Maybe the load can be devided by making an open source thread apart from forum, where ppl can check reported comments. This way the one posting also can learn why and advance.

Also for long posts a 'show more' button for comments beyond two lines.

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Based on what I've read, these are the (not) changes I'm considering (at least for now):

1. rename "Usage" to "How to Use" to help add clarification on what that category will mean

2. add way to link one usage note to multiple words.

3. add way to hide specific notes

4. add way to always show your usage notes. This should be relatively easy, just trying to figure out how to best frame the settings so this functionality is clear.

5. do not add any other categories (Etymology). Everything that doesn't fit in another category should go in Other. If there is enough of a certain subcategory within Other in the future, will consider splitting it out.

6. Add support for adding links

7. No immediately, but add a way to create virtual word links based on usage notes. It will go like this: If you have a Meaning/How to Use note that is bound to 2 or more words, after approval, those will be classified as "Related" (or something similar) and appear as an entry in the word links for each of the words.

That's what I mean - it's just that I haven't thought of the best way to arrange the options in the settings panel to make that clear :).