掲示板 Forums - Naturally Passive Verbs And Their Non-Passive Forms

There are quite a few other examples apart from the pair of words above that have the same pattern:

There is a "normal" form, and a passive form of that "normal" form - which is usually tagged in the dictionary with "Archaic"

Have the archaic words been reformed, or is there another explanation of the "different" yet "same" words in the pairings?

This has really confused me

Neither of those words are passive. They look like they're the same word / serve the same function, just with an archaic reading vs a modern one.

From my observations, some words it is just the way the word happens to be in that kana combination (you'll need to dig into the words' etymology, maybe someone can help).

Using your example:

Dictionary form: 戯れる/たわむれる

Passive form is: 戯れられる/たわむられる

Dictionary form: 戯る/たわむる

Passive form is: 戯られる/たわむられる

The ("root"? not "stem"?) word + あーgroup + れる form is known as the passive form, and probably in your words AKA "tense"(?). Cure-dolly sensei calls it the "receptive-form". So your screenshots are dictionary forms of the words, not the passive forms.

The passive form is just a way to express a situation or activity, Most verbs are able to have a passive form.

In other examples, about exceptions, is regarding the i-adjectives.

People ask why kirai 嫌い (きらい) and kirei きれい are na-adjectives when it ends with い.

Kirei is easier because it can be identified in kanji as 綺麗. Most externally borrowed words are noun-ish and mostly na-adjectives.

Kirai is not so easy explainable with its okurigana, same goes to a few other words that has okurigana e.g. 好き.

From what I understand, that's historical etymology, though I do not know the details.

Sort of explained above already in more detail, but the short version is that れる =/= passive tense. Passive conjugations are always あ-row kana + れる, so たわむれる is not passive because the kana preceding れる is う-row.

There is no れる form in Japanese.

It can be a part of several conjugations, like: passive/honorific (飲む->飲まれる), potential (取る->取れる) or lower bigrade (忘る->忘れる). But the last two aren't "strictly れる": 書く->書ける (potential) or 見ゆ->見える (lower bigrade). Passive/honorific always ends with あ-row kana+れる.

Oh I understand now, I probably mixed the passive and potential forms up

Thank you for your explanations!