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At the same time A, B (occurs together)

  1. At the same time A, B (occurs together)
  2. Both A and B (share a common trait)
  3. A and B (do something together)
  4. As A changes, B changes as well
  5. A is both B and C (B and C are modifiers)
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5
その                  なった  
A huge smile appeared on her face as she opened that box.
4
           まで       
There was thunder as the rain came down.
2
けいた     ゴール する           
Keita shouted with joy as he crossed the finish in first place.

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Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
ANoun である
 
AVerb: Dictionary Form
 
Aい-adjective
 
Aな-adjective である
 
 
BAction
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Both A and B (share a common trait)

  1. At the same time A, B (occurs together)
  2. Both A and B (share a common trait)
  3. A and B (do something together)
  4. As A changes, B changes as well
  5. A is both B and C (B and C are modifiers)
3
                
Both he and I work in Japan.
2
    ともに    です  
Both he and I are Japanese.

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Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
ANoun
BNoun
CAction
Where this grammar is found


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A and B (do something together)

  1. At the same time A, B (occurs together)
  2. Both A and B (share a common trait)
  3. A and B (do something together)
  4. As A changes, B changes as well
  5. A is both B and C (B and C are modifiers)
3
                  
I went together with my friends on a hot springs trip.
2
       ボランティア         
Both students and adults participated in the volunteering.

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Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
ANoun
BNoun
CAction
Where this grammar is found


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As A changes, B changes as well

  1. At the same time A, B (occurs together)
  2. Both A and B (share a common trait)
  3. A and B (do something together)
  4. As A changes, B changes as well
  5. A is both B and C (B and C are modifiers)
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3
                 
I got nervous as my turn approached.
1
                  
My eyes have gotten bad as I've aged.

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Construction
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ANoun or non past verb
BNoun or non past verb
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A is both B and C (B and C are modifiers)

  1. At the same time A, B (occurs together)
  2. Both A and B (share a common trait)
  3. A and B (do something together)
  4. As A changes, B changes as well
  5. A is both B and C (B and C are modifiers)
1
      うれしさ        ある  
There is both happiness and loneliness in a child's growth.
0
           でもあります  
Graduation is both a farewell and a beginning.

Getting the sentences
Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
ANoun (Subject)
BNoun
である
CNoun
ANoun (Subject)
Bな-adjective
である
Cな-adjective
ANoun (Subject)
Bい-adjective
である
Cい-adjective
Where this grammar is found


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Discussion about this grammar
avatar
Years Studied: 3
Studying: JLPT N3 & JLPT 2
Level: 1, : 99
It's dictionary form verb + とともに

According to Jgram these constructions are also possible:
N・なA(stem) + である + とともに
いA + とともに
2
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 109, : 6,622
Thanks!
0
12 years ago
avatar
Grammar mod. Level: 1, : 500
According to my books this grammar point can actually be split to three or four different, although similar meanings. One means to do something together with, one means at the same time () as you have here, another shows when one thing changes, so does another and finally my ALC book lists a fourth definition which is "in addition to." Maybe we can split this one up a bit, what do you think?
0
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 109, : 6,622
Ok - I've done some investigation myself, and here's what I've come up with. Let me know what you think about it - and if it looks good, we can update the page:

Meaning 1:
While A changes, B changes along with it (shows relation between the two events)
Verb とともに Verb

Meaning 2:
A as well as B
Noun とともに Noun
followed by a common attribute of the 2 nouns

Meaning 3:
A and B do something together
Noun とともに Noun

Meaning 4:
A as well as B (descriptors)
Nouns/adjectives
A とともに B
0
12 years ago
avatar
Grammar mod. Level: 1, : 500
Looks good to me. Meaning 1 can also take verbs in dictionary form. Meaning 3 can also take verbs, adjectives and Nである form. Finally I'd also put "in addition to" as part of the definition of #4.
0
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 109, : 6,622
How can meaning 3 take verbs and adjectives if it's describing two people doing something together?
0
12 years ago
avatar
Grammar mod. Level: 1, : 500
I don't see why it's only for humans. I see example of when the bell rung, ~~ happened and when the test was over, ~~, etc.
0
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 109, : 6,622
Then let me clarify the definition, it's when A and B perform the same action. :P
0
12 years ago
avatar
Grammar mod. Level: 1, : 500
I think the definition you have now at the top is the best. It's a strange grammar point though because when I think of I think of at that exact moment but that's not necessarily true. For example, するとともに、してったA(LC)。Who knows what the time difference there is... blah.
0
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 109, : 6,622
With what I looked up, though, that's a different meaning. Let me see if I can clarify this a bit:

Meaning 1:
While A occurs, B also occurs; A and B occur at the same time (this is the one that's closest to に)
Verb/N/na-adj とともに

Meaning 2:
A as well as B (both share a common attribute C) - this is close to 'AとBはどっちもCだ'
Noun とともに Noun

Meaning 3:
A and B do something together (AとBはCをする)
Noun とともに Noun

Meaning 4:
A as well as B; in addition to A, B (SubjectはAでBです)
Nouns/na-adjectives
A とともに B
0
12 years ago
avatar
Grammar mod. Level: 1, : 500
1, 3 and 4 all seem good to me but I don't see instances of 2 anywhere. The only other definition of とともに I'm seeing shows change using words that express motion. Ex. As it gets warmer, the flowers start to bloom. Although the number 2 definition make sense and seems to fit in just fine with the とともに usage.
0
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 109, : 6,622
My reference material for meaning 2 is A Dictionary of Intermediate Grammar, which I'm sure you either have or have seen before :)
0
12 years ago
avatar
Grammar mod. Level: 1, : 500
I have it but it's still packed away somewhere in boxes(T_T). Do you see the one I'm talking about anywhere? I'm getting it from the ALC series as well as the Kanzen master book.
0
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 109, : 6,622
It wasn't in the dictionary, but it is loosely referred to in another text. What if it was 'As [A] changes, [B] changes with it?' I don't see any restriction for 'motion' though. How's that sound?

PS: れてすみません.
0
12 years ago
avatar
Grammar mod. Level: 1, : 500
Hah no prob. Sorry motion was a poor choice of a word there. I do however think that the words must express change なる、てくる、えている as well as nouns like (マスター)、・・・ The definition sounds good to me!
0
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 109, : 6,622
I...think it should be all good. Take a look at it and tell me what you think!
0
12 years ago
avatar
Grammar mod. Level: 1, : 500
Looking good! For meaning 3, it doesn't have to be a NとともにN or VとともにV formation. It can be NとともにV and vice-versa.
0
12 years ago
avatar
Site admin
Level: 109, : 6,622
Fixed it, thanks!
0
12 years ago



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