Vocabulary dictionary

Kanji dictionary

Grammar dictionary

Sentence lookup


Forums - List of tautological words

Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese

Page: 1 of 2



avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
Many Japanese words are somewhat tautological:
dance + dance
infant + infant
error + error
omission + omission
move + move
life + life
life + life
hot + heat
thick + thick
Maybe there's an official way to call those words but I don't know it.
It seems there are hundreds of them, or at least they appear quite often. Learning synonyms and antonyms together is generally a good idea, so I wonder if there is a list of those, and also of "antonymic" words, such as , etc. I think it would really help the kanji learning process.
It doesn't seem like anyone bothered to make such a list (at least in an English language page), but I just started one. Please add any tautological or antoymic word you can think of.
Quote
0
3 months ago. Edited 3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
I just found a page in Japanese on this subject. It doesn't have a huge list, but here they are:
road + road
help + help
image + image
stop + stop
add + add
reduce + few
river + river
forest + forest
trees + tree
ground + ground
rock + stone
drink + eat
warehouse + warehouse
rich + wealth
money + money
skin + skin
body + body
onself + self
start + begin
compete + contend
indicate + indicate
exist + exist
revolve + revolve  and
warm + warmth
cold + cold
dark + black
eternity + long time
passing of time + past
appear + present
pure + clean
excel + excel
noble + respect
variety + variety
goods + thing
law + law

The list also has . Maybe he was thinking about , which I added below?

Maybe enough to start a schedule...
And some antonymic words:




〕 ←「」のセットだから⑥ではない!
退



Interestingly, none of the 9 tautological words I could think of was in the list of 36 that I found. This strongly indicates that there are many, many more, and my guess that there are hundreds of them is likely to be true.
Quote
0
3 months ago. Edited 3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
Here are 16 more I just thought of
content + contain
secret + secrecy
be informed + know
acquiesce + acknowledge
completion + complete
not yet + coming
in love + love
mixing + interchange
birth + give birth
build + create
fortune + fortune
face + face
surface + surface
trust + trust
revolve + return to
fate + fate
time + time
difference + separate

And 4 antinomic
extinguish + fire
bright + darkness
sell + buy
peace + war
Quote
0
3 months ago. Edited 3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
I found one more list (some already mentioned)




And another list of antinomic words


西



Now for sure it's enough to create 2schedules worth studying.
But is there a way to create them easily?
Quote
0
3 months ago. Edited 3 months ago.
avatar
Site admin
: 40,789, : 3,473
ポスト : 9,683, はんこ : 138
Make some custom lists so everyone else can get at them! You can do it from Learn > Study Center > Me
Quote
2
3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
Done, I created the lists "Tautologicals" with 66 words https://www.renshuu.org/study/...
and "Antinomicals" with 58 words https://www.renshuu.org/study/...
It doesn't seem like there were words to designate these words concisely, so I just made them up.
Suggestions to expand the two lists are welcome…
Quote
0
3 months ago. Edited 3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
There are now 100 words in the list of tautologicals... There are many more, so if anyone finds these lists useful, please let me know which words I should add. Some words are rather rare, but still interesting to help remember some jouyou kanjis. But if the word is rare and one of  the kanjis is not jouyou, is it worth adding this word? In other words, should I make this list as complete as possible for its linguistical interest, or should I keep it within reasonable bounds to better use its mnemonic value to study up to JLPT N1?
Quote
0
3 months ago. Edited 3 months ago.
avatar
Studying : JLPT N3-N2
: 19,107, : 228
ポスト : 330, はんこ : 163
I'm not sure if I fully understand the concept of tautological words.
Would those rather mundane words such as (time + ages), (year + ages), (year + month) or (month + day) and the like fit the profile? I don't think I've seen them in your list.

As for the antinomicals, how about (now + old), or (fire + water) and (white + black)?
Quote
1
3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
Thanks a lot! There are many "mundane words" that fit in my lists. It doesn't look like the concept was studied at all, since all I could find were tiny lists, so it's a work in progress (the fact I just had to make up words to qualify those words is quite an indication)... I just added  きんこ   . Not the others because    there pretty much refer to specific (and different) periods of time instead of the concept of time as a whole, so it would be stretching the idea too much and I'd end up with thousands of words, don't you think? I'd like these list to have some value as a mnemonic tool: I'll remember at once a yomi of 2 kanjis and the semantic relation between them because of words on these lists.
Also, for tautologicals I particularly like when the meaning of the whole word is pretty much the same as one of the meanings of both parts... That makes them tautological: means dance, and it's written dancedance. I just found that very interesting. We can't have that in any other language I know (I have a pretty decent knowledge of 8 languages, and know some basics of 6 more... That's 12 from the 3 big European families, Japanese, and Greek, so it's not a very big diversity, though). The closest I know is that in many language you can repeat an adjective to reinforce it: red-red is very red, dumb-dumb is very dumb. Maybe it's the kanji writing that allows that (is there the same phenomenon in Chinese?) or maybe it's the agglutination: can you agglutinate synonyms in Hungarians to get another synonymous? Maybe it's both? I don't know yet, but I thought it's a pretty cool linguistic element that is worth looking at, and can also provide mnemonic help with over a hundred kanjis.
You made me think of , sun and moon, which I added as antinomical.
Edit: in wiktionary I tried 8 tautologicals, and among them, is also a tautological in Chinese (excellent + outstanding = excellent, outstanding), and so is (move + move = move). Chinese is not agglutinative, so the kanji writing can, on its own, creates this phenomenon. But maybe the agglutination makes it much more frequent. Maybe agglutination also creates this phenomenon on its own. Speakers of Korean, Turkish, Nahuatl, Finnish etc could shed some light...
Quote
1
3 months ago. Edited 3 months ago.
avatar
: 40,864, : 206
ポスト : 113, はんこ : 169
It's not completely unheard of. In the Kanji Kentei, on certain levels, there is a question type that asks you to define the relationship between two kanji comprising a word. You have to choose whether they have a similar meaning, an opposite one or if one elaborates on the other. For instance, from the test sample for 5:
tvrfggtc0dsinb3rgqwke46ro.png

While this is less strict than your definition, I imagine these sort of lists appear in preparatory material geared for these sections, partitioned by kanji level. Or, put differently, people wanting to study towards them could benefit much from the lessons you created.
Quote
1
3 months ago.
avatar
Site admin
: 40,789, : 3,473
ポスト : 9,683, はんこ : 138
I always loved those questions - they felt like giveaways.
Quote
0
3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
Thanks a lot gdartfow, that's interesting! But I didn't see anything about this in English, so it's a very uncommon subject. Also, the few small lists I found (which I copied in my 2nd and 4th message here), and the test question you provided only consider the tautologicals as only something one should be able to see for studying kanjis. While I think it can be used as mnemonics to study those words and their kanjis, I also think it's a linguistic phenomenon worthy of attention in itself, like the linguistic phenomenon of doubling words to insist.
Let me check if there's something on the subject in French, Russian or German, I could have a surprise… zilch, nada and tipota.
In this test they give  as the example for the case え, while I included this words in my list of antinomics. Most of the words in this list are things like "up down", "pros and cons" etc, but the exceptions are more interesting. Like , which doesn't just mean left and right.
Quote
0
3 months ago.
avatar
Studying : JLPT N3-N2
: 19,107, : 228
ポスト : 330, はんこ : 163
How about (splendor + splendor) and maybe (splendor + beauty)? Didn't find them in your list.
Quote
1
3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
Thanks Karlla, just added them!
Quote
0
3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : Too many
Studying : Random things
: 44,027, : 454
ポスト : 1,091, はんこ : 229
I did some poking around the linguistic section of Wikipedia, and I think what you're describing are types of co-compounds. If you feel like doing some technical reading, I found these resources on Google:

https://books.google.com/books...
https://www.google.com/url?q=h...
Quote
1
3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
That's really interesting, thanks! I just read that chapter in the first book, it's precisely what I was interested in. And it largely confirms what I thought, that either Chinese writing (or anything that's not strictly phonetic-based, but Egyptian and Mayan glyphs have lost popularity recently, so I'll just say Chinese writing) OR agglutination can create this phenomenon: Mordvin, Georgian, Uzbek and other languages quoted repeatedly are agglutinative. I didn't read the whole book, but I noticed a sentence saying that there may be something that prevents this phenomenon in European languages (how about alphabetical writing and the absence of agglutination?... What about Hungarian?)
I also noticed that the author barely touched Japanese, with an example p 19 pointing to the fact he probably didn't have enough information and therefore couldn't correctly assess this phenomenon in the Japanese language.
I also noticed that the author quotes a 1982 Soviet article, in which the author, who was writing in Russian, used a concept excessively common (to my taste) in Russian to describe a completely different phenomenon. In Russian you don't eat strawberries, you eat strawberry, which is a collective noun. And there are way too many of these words (speaking as a user). So when the Soviet linguist discussed Uzbek or Mordvin words like mountainhill, honourhonour etc, he mentioned that as a case of collective nouns, which seems (after this first read) like he completely missed the point. Couldn't make a new word to describe something new? Too old to adopt new concept? Or, unfortunately, it's possible it was dictated by political considerations: in some cases Soviet linguists had to stretch what they knew to fit into the ideology that Soviet peoples are brothers (and therefore they had to show imaginary similarities). The Balto Slavic language group is a bit of a stretch, for example, and Baltic schoolchildren were taught about some insignificant similarities as a proof of a the languages being very close.
Don't laugh too hard at the USSR, though, the EU does pretty much the same, in a more subtle way 
Anyway, thanks again for those references. The first pretty much confirms, at least, that this phenomenon in the Japanese language hadn't received enough attention, as it's quite an interesting phenomenon.
Quote
1
3 months ago. Edited 3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : Too many
Studying : Random things
: 44,027, : 454
ポスト : 1,091, はんこ : 229
This stuff is pretty interesting. Makes me wish I had taken more linguistics classes in college.
Quote
0
3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
I don't think you should regret that, I have scientific degrees, languages are just a fascinating hobby. Besides, some linguistic professors are best at taking the fun out of languages (that's what I gathered from some of their victims). Also, if you find something interesting that wasn't studied well enough, you can dig and become the expert on that very specific question (and contradict "common knowledge"), if you try hard. Happened to me, in a completely different subject (and I was proven right 2 years later).
I just thought about a pretty obvious one:
try.try is a trial, . That's number 120, I think, and if there are still obvious ones like this, there must be at the very least 100 more. I wonder if there are 3kanji and 4kanji tautologicals and antinomicals, couldn't think of one yet, but I probably didn't look hard enough.
Funnily, I wouldn't have paid attention to this if I weren't learning Greek, which made me pay attention to some unexpected similarities among European languages and sometimes beyond. E.g. when people agree in Greek (συμ•φωνώ, hence "symphony"), it means they "together•voice", that their voices are in tune... in a musical chord (French then English accord, Italian accordo...), same as Russian со•гласие. Or "Zu•stimmung" in German, and 調 in Japanese. Yes, there are several words for that in Japanese, and German etc, but this musical analogy is one of them. I would guess this idea is present in all cultures that have the concept of musical chord.
So, when I paused and thought about , and realized that there's nothing like that in the European languages I know, I thought it's worth looking at it.
Quote
1
3 months ago.
avatar
Studying : JLPT N3-N2
: 19,107, : 228
ポスト : 330, はんこ : 163
Couldn't find in your list.
Quote
1
3 months ago.
avatar
Years studied : On and off since 2006 (mostly off, between 2008 and 2018)
Studying : N3 N2
: 3,957, : 26
ポスト : 236, はんこ : 107
Thanks!
Quote
1
3 months ago.
Getting the posts


Page: 1 of 2



Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese


Characters to show:





Use your mouse or finger to write characters in the box.